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ThunderAlex  





Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 3480
Location: Land of Genesis... where angels lose their way

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bjwdestroyer wrote:
I made a comic.

Comic

I'm..... this.... wow. This honestly made me laugh to the point of almost choking. Thank you, bjw, for making my day .

Also, who's the one on the left?
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bjwdestroyer  





Joined: 30 Jun 2007
Posts: 4784
Location: I have more posts than you, who cares where I am.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

footballtom3685 wrote:
We realize that music discussion can and will lead to a lot of flaming. This is why in the forum rules we explicitly stated that flaming won't be tolerated. Obviously that applies to the whole site, but in this forum especially it is likely to occur, and we'll do our best to prevent it.

footballtom3685 wrote:
Oh, I made a comic too

That's one of my problems. Peace and harmony on a forum will not happen, and trying to make it happen doesn't necessarily make the forum better. I'm not asking you to stop, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that resources can be allocated a little bit more efficiently here. At the very least, some "trolls" have opinions that will steer conversation forward. Meanwhile, 10 word posts that do nothing continue to exist and are left unpunished just because they're nice. Even in daily conversation, I'm sure you might playfully or lightly insult a friend to help get your point across. That doesn't mean a policeman should bust through the window and begin beating you with a baton.

This is, more or less, what I was trying to aim at with my comic.

I don't visit ScoreHero simply to engage in a civilized discussion. I visit ScoreHero for fun. And sometimes, that involves messing around with each other. If you tell me to go somewhere else for fun, then that's just disappointing. Enjoy trying to reach your dream: a land full of monotone and emotionless banter. But hey, at least it's intelligent!

tl;dr: I find it funny how something like this is condemned,

Fugitive wrote:
I'm not sure how you could even consider their show top 5 unless you've only seen 5 shows.

while 1 sentence posts that do nothing aren't ripped apart. Posts that do nothing or light trolling that keeps discussion going... they might as well be equally heinous, or since killing the former is too ridiculous of a task, why not just allow "flames" like those to stay.

But don't get me wrong: the final line in my comic should definitely be against the rules :P

footballtom3685 wrote:
You also have to realize that with the ability to make more specific threads the likelihood of flaming goes down a lot. Previously we only had "The Metal Thread", for instance, where all metal heads gathered to discuss metal. Obviously this can be problematic as many people have different tastes in sub genres. Now, instead of the over-generalized mega threads we can have specific threads for artists, albums, and even songs. What you don't see too often is somebody who hates metal coming into the thread and saying "lol metal sucks you guys are dumb" (and if you did see that the poster would be banned). Now, with more specific topics, people don't have to post in a thread they're only somewhat interested in. What I mean is you're less likely to see "__ sucks" type posts because people would have to go out of their way to make them. Of course flame wars and poll threads will still occur quite often, but we're going to be there to lock/delete poor threads and prevent flame wars.

To be honest, this really doesn't change anything. General Chat still had plenty of threads that centered around specific genres, bands, and even albums. And while it may be nice to see a filtered version of General Chat, we now have an extra forum where users feel compelled to make sure that every indie band and every subgenre that sounds completely made up gets it's own thread. Of course, it's still too early for me to say anything, but I'm just hoping that ScoreHero's taste in music isn't so pretentious that we just see walls of threads with zero posts in them. Much like how the staff looks for threads that promote discussion, I'm sure that such an idea can be broadened into forums that promote usefulness. Seeing as how this has been in the works for a long time though, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt :P

Edit: On a slightly related note via tv3636's comic, I'm still pushing for score tracking expansion. Not necessarily Touhou because it's so niche--especially outside of Japan--but stuff like Tetris would be really cool for starters.
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JCirri  





Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 4576

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We aren't asking nor intending for peace and harmony to occur. Given our rules, there's nothing wrong on either end of the spectrum from goofing around to having intense/serious heated debates, or crossover between the two.

All we're asking is for everyone to understand they don't possess the sole opinion and therefore to maintain a level of respect for others. Having respect doesn't necessarily mean formal exchanges, and living in a fake globe where all posts are prefixed with "in my opinion", etc. You can certainly still joke around and disagree. It just means not to intentionally frustrate the readers or flame while offering nothing of substance towards the argument at hand. There's a distinct different between outright flaming a person, and having emotional statements directed towards an argument.

That quoted line is borderline, but would be fine if followed up by another sentence briefly giving a bit of reasoning for the dissent. Otherwise it's begging for the OP to reply by flaming the individual and completely derailing the thread. If there's just a tad of reasoning to go along with the emotional statement, then there's another target to attack that's on-topic with the discussion.

I really don't want to kill the personality of individuals, as that's what builds community. You've got a great sense of humor and I do enjoy reading your posts (even the comic about me). We've just seen one too many times the type of post that derails topics, and the rules are in place to avoid those obvious pitfalls so we can have fun and stay on topic. The rules aren't written in stone, and it's possible they're currently coming off as leaning too far in one direction. It's not an easy task to communicate in a few brief lines of rules (the lengthier they are, the less people read) the type of atmosphere we're aiming for. The language can and will change as we react to how others interpret and respond to them.

You share many of the concerns that we've pondered for weeks. If the Music forum does end up filled with completely useless threads that hardly have any discussion amongst them, we can easily close the forum and revert to having music discussion as a subset of General Chat. This is the reason it's on a trial basis and we're by no means proclaiming it will be a success.

*goes to add Tetris score tracking*
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bjwdestroyer  





Joined: 30 Jun 2007
Posts: 4784
Location: I have more posts than you, who cares where I am.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JCirri wrote:
It just means not to intentionally frustrate the readers or flame while offering nothing of substance towards the argument at hand. There's a distinct different between outright flaming a person, and having emotional statements directed towards an argument.

That quoted line is borderline, but would be fine if followed up by another sentence briefly giving a bit of reasoning for the dissent. Otherwise it's begging for the OP to reply by flaming the individual and completely derailing the thread.

At times, I feel that judging posts as being either flames or legitimate civilized responses is a bit tougher than you describe, but this is why we have loose rules in the first place. At the very least, it's nice hearing that you can essentially dilute something that can be interpreted as a "flame" by adding an explanation for why it was originally said. This helps me draw a line in terms of what is and is not acceptable.

JCirri wrote:
You share many of the concerns that we've pondered for weeks. If the Music forum does end up filled with completely useless threads that hardly have any discussion amongst them, we can easily close the forum and revert to having music discussion as a subset of General Chat. This is the reason it's on a trial basis and we're by no means proclaiming it will be a success.

Very well then. And I do truly hope for the best when it comes to the future of the Music Discussion forum. After all, you only get to see ScoreHero adding something once every blue moon.

JCirri wrote:
*goes to add Tetris score tracking*

ScoreHero finally begins it's mission to conquer all score-tracking.

F5 F5 F5 F5
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JCirri  





Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 4576

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bjwdestroyer wrote:
At times, I feel that judging posts as being either flames or legitimate civilized responses is a bit tougher than you describe, but this is why we have loose rules in the first place. At the very least, it's nice hearing that you can essentially dilute something that can be interpreted as a "flame" by adding an explanation for why it was originally said. This helps me draw a line in terms of what is and is not acceptable.

I didn't describe the judgment of violations as simple, but only the distinction between losing control / outright attacking members (clearly never acceptable) vs. emotional responses geared towards the topic (more questionable cases).

Regardless what rules we invent there won't ever be a clear line. Judging the intent of a post that has one phrase of a sentence that could be interpreted as a "flame", is undoubtedly different than a post that isolates that phrase and contributes nothing else.

Do we want to make the rules have a 100% clear line and punish for each potential minor infraction and intimidate others from participating in a casual/fun manner? No. Do we want to allow posts that intend to attack individuals and the subsequent derailing arguments unrelated to the topic? No.

That leaves us somewhere in the middle. The rules attempt to define an intended atmosphere for the forum (i.e. a fun and interesting general music board with an underlying level of respect for opinions) while giving us the justification to penalize those who we feel detract from that atmosphere. As I said before, communicating in a "rules post" the intended atmosphere is not easy to do. It'll only truly happen through example and adjustment over time - both with us listening to your (plural) feedback, and in others learning by rules and positive examples that are set. But we had to start with something based on what we'd gathered from the preexisting music threads in General Chat.
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killzonedout  





Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 3061

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't wait to use music tracking, but I laughed so hard at the BJW/ Fottballtom comics. I just had to thank you guys for making my day with that. XD
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JimmyHero33  





Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 1635
Location: MY HOUSE OMG!! :)

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Music discussion thead that is very good news I love music and am very happy you made a seperate forum for music! Good work and thank you Scorehero staff and JC!!
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heety9  





Joined: 29 Feb 2008
Posts: 110

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool idea!
...but shouldn't this be a gift "from" scorehero?
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Beedlebub  





Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 1221
Location: Bendigo, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

heety9 wrote:
Cool idea!
...but shouldn't this be a gift "from" scorehero?

Scorehero is you. Scorehero is me. Scorehero is every single person who makes a post on these forums or submits a score. The staff is not just Scorehero.

We are Scorehero.

WE ARE SCOREHERO.
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Torchy wrote:
Oh great, I've gone and turned it into another fucking "ROK BEND KUIK UR AZS LOSAR NEVORSAF SUX" board


God damnit.
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Steebeh  





Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 1551
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, sweet. Never noticed this till now! (been a while since I've been on SH and this side of SH)

Awesome stuff
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