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Firefighters Let House Burn Down Over $75.00
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pman5595  





Joined: 06 May 2008
Posts: 1543
Location: Wayzata High School

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My opinion on how it should have been done: Instead of having to pay $75 a year it should have been added to the taxes of all the residents. They don't even realizing they're paying for it, and your house doesn't burn to the ground
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Subrick  





Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 1382
Location: Terryville, CT

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is complete horseshit. Letting someone's house burn down (which, might I add, had 3 dogs and a cat inside it) over something as petty as 75 bucks. That system is flawed in a hell of a lot of ways. Firstly, it's just downright messed up to not put out a person's house over money. Second, what if the trees behind his house caught fire, which spread across the trees and to neighboring houses? Thirdly, what if most of the people in a town that adopted this kind of system were unable to pay the fee? Also, as people have previously said, what if there were little children or elderly people in the house that couldn't get out? Would the heartless firefighters just stand there while they burned to death too?

And to this:

Yewb wrote:
And was it morally right to expect coverage when he hadn't paid the insurance?


No one should have to pay anything for any kind of insurance. All insurance should be free, universal, and equal, be it health, car, home, what have you. To force someone to pay for insurance is, to me, very bad, especially when it comes to things like car and health, ESPECIALLY health.
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jesse0986  





Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 3518
Location: near the 'E' in 'UNITED'

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Warlord wrote:
So how does a system like this work? Is the town small enough that the FD knew who was calling and that they didn't pay? Do they have the phone number synced up with a message letting the fire department know that these people didn't shell out the $75? Or was the first response to getting a phone call about a fire checking the caller's background, instead of dispatching a truck?


pman5595 wrote:
My opinion on how it should have been done: Instead of having to pay $75 a year it should have been added to the taxes of all the residents. They don't even realizing they're paying for it, and your house doesn't burn to the ground


I don't know if this'll directly answer either of your posts, but the FD is located in South Fulton, and this guy lives (lived?) in an unincorporated area outside the town. From what I gather, South Fulton residents ARE required to pay for the service, but once you get out into the rural area, outside of the city's jurisdiction, that's when it becomes an option that you can either accept at the $75 fee or turn down at your own risk.

Subrick wrote:
All insurance should be free, universal, and equal, be it health, car, home, what have you. To force someone to pay for insurance is, to me, very bad, especially when it comes to things like car and health, ESPECIALLY health.


Public service couldn't exist and operate fluently if it wasn't funded properly. Fire trucks aren't gonna pay for themselves.
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Subrick  





Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 1382
Location: Terryville, CT

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should clarify myself a bit. To pay DIRECTLY for it is bad, as you would with a private insurance company. To pay for it simply by paying taxes however I have no problem with it. To have a system in place however such as the current HMO based healthcare system is something I cannot support (thankfully the healthcare bill, as neutered as it came out, has taken some of the power away from the HMOs, and hopefully within the next 10 years the HMO system will collapse and the U.S. will have a universal health care system). I am entirely against private insurance companies. That's my stance on insurance. Stuff like Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, etc. I am all for. Companies like Blue Cross, Geico, Allstate, Kaiser, etc. I am entirely against.
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jesse0986  





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't agree with you at all.

But that's opening up another can of worms. I'm actually surprised this topic hasn't been locked already, since technically it is a news thread--let's try not to get it locked by derailing it.
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Subrick  





Joined: 22 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jesse0986 wrote:
I don't agree with you at all.


Well that's my socialism coming into play in my posts.

Enough about that though. I think this thread has pretty much run its course.
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FBMrider86  





Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 1679
Location: Lawrenceburg, KY <- And I ain't havin' no fun

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Subrick wrote:
I should clarify myself a bit. To pay DIRECTLY for it is bad, as you would with a private insurance company. To pay for it simply by paying taxes however I have no problem with it. To have a system in place however such as the current HMO based healthcare system is something I cannot support (thankfully the healthcare bill, as neutered as it came out, has taken some of the power away from the HMOs, and hopefully within the next 10 years the HMO system will collapse and the U.S. will have a universal health care system). I am entirely against private insurance companies. That's my stance on insurance. Stuff like Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, etc. I am all for. Companies like Blue Cross, Geico, Allstate, Kaiser, etc. I am entirely against.


Car insurance should not be free. You own and drive a car, you're responsible for it. Cars are not necessities. Free healthcare? I'm all for it.
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This thread is very disturburbing. Also terrible.
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pman5595  





Joined: 06 May 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenn Beck Weighs in
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FBMrider86  





Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 1679
Location: Lawrenceburg, KY <- And I ain't havin' no fun

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pman5595 wrote:
Glenn Beck Weighs in

As much as I can't stand the man (and despite the inherent mocking)..he's absolutely right. This guy's situation was fucked up, I think we can agree. Having to spend extra funds on what some would deem a necessary protection is terrible. But everything Beck says (fuck the other guy there) is pretty much right on the money. He had a choice to pay the money (only because there was no other option in his area) or to take the risk. He took the risk and this is what happens. The guy in the video who is taking shots at Beck only bothers to discuss what should have happened regarding his county/town's regulations/laws over fire protection. That's another issue entirely. He knew of the rules far beyond (didn't he originally mention the law had been in effect for 20 years) the fire and he chose to ignore it. Instead of debating whether or not it was shitty of the firefighters to stand there and do nothing, how bout this...

Given his situation, what would you have done?
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socrstopr wrote:
This thread is very disturburbing. Also terrible.
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footballtom3685  





Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 2478
Location: Bay Area, CA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jesse0986 wrote:
I don't agree with you at all.

But that's opening up another can of worms. I'm actually surprised this topic hasn't been locked already, since technically it is a news thread--let's try not to get it locked by derailing it.
News threads are ok if there's something to discuss. This is a perfect example of a good news thread. There's a civil argument going on over something that is obviously very debatable. The rule is against news stories where there isn't really anything to discuss and are types of stories that would be better suited for people to comment on (like, the type of stuff that would be perfect for a blog or an actual news site). These typically start with somebody copy-pasting an article and not adding any discussion of their own, because there's nothing to actually talk about. This thread is fine

Personally I can see both side of the argument here and I think Twang's suggestion of a heavy fine for not paying up front is a pretty good idea. If you don't feel the need to pay $75 each year for protection, you'll end up paying back even more than you would have in the first place but you'll still have the firefighters' protection. In this case it's a shame what happened but obviously if they put it out it would set the standard that nobody needed to pay the $75. It's just a tough situation and I don't think there's any easy answer for what should have been done in this situation. I can't think of any negatives with an extra fine for late coverage though, so hopefully something like that could be worked out for the future.
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Fugitive  





Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 3035

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pman5595 wrote:
Glenn Beck Weighs in


Yeah, Uygur is right on this one. Listen to that man please.
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Subrick  





Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 1382
Location: Terryville, CT

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cenk is the anti-Glenn Beck; Cenk actually has an I.Q. above that of a plastic bottle. Not to mention Cenk doesn't spurt off the most insidious crap on a nightly basis (Obama hates white people, the building I didn't know I work in is a secret Communist haven, I want to poison Nancy Pelosi, etc.)
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Yewb  





Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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Location: Plymouth, UK

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FreeXBird wrote:
Yewb wrote:
And was it morally right to expect coverage when he hadn't paid the insurance?


Okay, say you're a bodyguard who demands $75 for pay. You solicit a guy, but he says no. As he walks out of your building, somebody holds him at gunpoint. Are you just going to let him die since he didn't pay?
It's a rough example but c'mon.


That's more than a rough example, that's a downright irrelevant example. If you can't make an argument without resorting to an example of a different situation, the argument has no business being made. The idea behind the $75 insurance fee is that firefighting is neither cheap nor safe. End of.

Subrick, in a world where everything is free to everyone and any resource, including manpower, you care to name is in infinite abundance, I'd agree with your point. Unfortunately, that world is so far removed from our own that the concept of economics doesn't even make sense there. You have to make sacrifices; everything has an opportunity cost. "Everything should be free" just doesn't work.

Paying for everything with taxes? Well, then you'd just have a titsload of angry people who either don't understand what they're paying for or - worse - do understand what they're paying for and don't think they're benefiting enough from their own money.
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Subrick  





Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 1382
Location: Terryville, CT

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You already have a bunch of people angry over taxes. They are called Teabaggers. Only they are going about entirely wrong in their efforts to protest. Instead of marching on Washington, they should be marching on Wall Street, as Michael Moore pointed out on Larry King last year.
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Boomsars  





Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 1273
Location: Arkansas

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off, I think the topic title is WAY misleading. It's just asking people to come in and say "Those gosh-darned firemen are so mean they should have helped the guy. " If the topic title was "Man doesn't pay for fire insurance and his house burns down" people would be like "No shit, dude should have payed for insurance." Also you say $75 like it's a petty amount. This is a yearly fee for everyone and I'm sure it adds up as funding for the fire department, among other things. While $75 per year is not a lot for one person, it adds up in the community and over time.

The fact of the matter is the dude didn't pay for insurance. If you don't have flood or tornado (a pretty common thing here) or whatever the fuck insurance and your house gets leveled, would you be angry at the insurance company for not supporting you? No, because that's stupid. Yes, the fire department "let it burn," but again that choice of wording is painting the firemen to be the bad guys. They aren't. They were doing what they were required to do, and all they required to do.

Finally, the fire department was from a different county and is not a volunteer run fire department (as far as I can tell). They had no obligation to put out this dude's house and probably avoided a lot of trouble by not doing so.

Edit: I would feel no differently even if there was loss of human life in the fire. I know someone's going to run in here and be like WELL WHAT IF A CHILD WAS INSIDE? Tough shit. Should have payed for insurance.
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