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Questions about squeezing

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Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 463
Location: Yakima, WA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:25 pm    Post subject: Questions about squeezing Reply with quote

I've always sucked at squeezing. I'm trying to go back and get better scores on some songs I did particularly bad on, and I'm having a tough time. It seems like I can hardly ever even come within 3,000 of first. I don't care about score that much, so I'm not going for a bunch of optimals or firsts, but it'd be nice if I wasn't missing 3,000-10,000 on every song. A few questions:

1. What is the best current source for paths? I know of pathhero and slowhero. Pathhero doesn't have paths for lots of songs. Also, on slowhero there are the 20%, 40%, 60%, etc paths. How do I know which one to use?

2. What are some good songs to practice this shit? Songs that are easy to get a tie for 1st or close to 1st?

3. How the hell is it possible to get full or even "good" whammy on anything? Seriously, anything where you need good whammy to get an activation, I never get it. I tried Hey You (GH1) for like an hour yesterday and never got the second activation even once. I know about early whammy. But it seems like there is usually a delay between when I start whammying and when the note actually turns blue and starts giving SP. On short sustains I sometimes get no whammy at all. I've tried all kind of different whammying methods and it just seems random. Is there some trick to this? I'm using the GH1 SG for PS2 and GH3 LP for X360 if that matters.


4. How the hell is it possible to get full ticks? I make sure I hold all the sustains as long as I can and even after a short intro with 7-8 sustains my score is different like every run. Also, if I hold too long it seems like I miss the next note a lot even though it doesn't feel like a miss (this part is unique to GH1/2)

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Depends on the game really. For GH1-A I say slowhero or videos. For the rest path hero or again videos. Yet this also brings in extended sustain glitch and some other things. Regarding the 0-100% paths. (This just goes for GH1-A for the most part) compare the top score and see what it's closest to. So for Heart Full of Black. You would use the 80%/80% path. I can't really think of any other examples. But I would say start either with 0%/0% or 60%/0%.

2. GH1... I'd say ILRAR, and possibly Stellar (Been a bit since I've squeezed some of the easy songs, so I'm probably not the best to ask for here) GH2, Mr Fix It, namely the first 3 acts, since there isn't any whammy. GH3, I would say the easiest optimal is Cities on Flame with Rock and Roll. At least imo. The rest... it's been awhile since I've squeezed those games.

3. Hey You is... well a bitch. It's extremely hard to get super consistent with GH1 whammy imo. It's easier for some than others, yet nearly all my scores that are good on that game took a very long time. But, this one just comes down to practice and something that I was unaware of (this was a very long time ago) make sure to unplug your SG once in awhile, as I was getting very inconstant whammy with it... until I unplugged it, plugged it back in. The "trick" is finding out what works best for you. McSkinny/Kev/Smoky/Everyone has a bit of a different way of whammying on GH1. Or at least a very slight variation. But getting better at early whammying is important. Also, something that I know helped me and I'm near 100% sure Alex commented saying it helped him as well, was squeezing on lower difficulties. This doesn't just go for GH1, but I feel like it helps the most with GH1-80's.

4. Decontrol intro. Practice holding ticks on that. Sorry that this post is so GH1 heavy. Yet I'm using it, as arguably this is the game I'm most familiar with. But, hit the sustain early, and then hit the next note late. A good example of this would be... This video. And a lot of other videos. Which thankfully GH1-GH3 have a video on most songs in the top 1-10.

Hope this helps you out a tiny bit. Please feel free to ask me to clarify anything, as I'm super tired, and may not have answered the questions fully/missed a question.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep in mind that in GH1/2/80s if you start whammying before hitting the sustain, the whammy bar won't register until it is brought back to neutral position. That might be what is causing you to miss whammy. So first, make sure your whammy bar is by default in neutral position, then as soon as you hit a sustain, start whammying. It has to be at least a frame late, I'm pretty sure. If your whammy bar is slightly broken, it might be stuck in near neutral position, causing every whammy to miss. Make sure that this is not the case, and if it is, a rubber band usually fixes it.

I'm not exactly sure how whammy works in other games but it seems like I had a peak in like 2008-2009 where I could actually get maximum whammy out of every sustain. Nowadays I tend to miss a lot of whammy at the beginning of sustains and I have no idea why, so I'm with you on that one. If someone has an explanation to that, please hit me up.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Squeeze tips for Harmonix games!

As Undead mentioned, you need to have the whammy at neutral (not engaged) on each hold at some point to actually have whammy register. As a consequence, you want to start whammying IMMEDIATELY as you hit the note. The best method for this was described to me as "a sock puppet motion" with the strum & whammy bar (think what your hand would do if closing a sock puppet's mouth).

HMX games are a bit... Forgiving on whammy actually. A single whammy pulse will "linger" and provide SP for as long as the "pulse" would be on-screen if the hold extended infinitely. See here: I obviously get some SP (an activation even in this case!) after the whammy is disengaged. The basic meaning of this is that you don't need to CONSTANTLY whammy. Any movement with any regularity should be good enough. The important part is getting as little latency between initial note strike and whammy engagement.

In addition, that "SP linger" carries over between notes! For a phrase like this you could whammy the first note, not whammy the second, and still get SP from most of it. As undead mentioned, again, for each hold, the whammy bar needs to return to neutral for a new whammy to register, but with the "spillover" from the previous note, this is a lot easier than it sounds. Just make for each note to completely release the whammy at some point near the beginning.

Other notes: HOLDSHOLDSHOLDS. You absolutely must get used to holding consistently if you want any chance of a good score. Particularly with whammy, what's the point of, say, whammying early if you drop the end of the hold?

In HMX games, the hold will always end at the same point (sounds obvious, but absolutely not the case in WT and later) so the key is to shift to the next note at the last possible second. Also, if you don't have to change your fretting to hit the next note after a hold (so, like a GRY hold with a single Y or another GRY at the end), you will always get full ticks (though not necessarily full whammy if you hit it early!)

Remember! the fretting is what's important here, so don't change frets early, cause that defeats the purpose. Pay attention to the strumming timing on the G after every chord in this clip to get a better idea.

You should (almost) always be hitting notes after holds late in an HMX game. The ONLY exception are phrases like this one with consecutive whammy holds. Those should be hit directly on time, as early loses ticks (but early whammy compensates for lost whammy) while late loses whammy. Compare the timing on the SP phrase chords to those that aren't SP immediately after (like look when the notes are blowing up in reference to the strike line).

The most important thing is realizing squeezing is like tapping: something out of the ordinary gameplay-wise that mandates practice to get comfortable. It took me a few weeks to post any decent score with squeezing, but it eventually becomes seconds nature.

Neversoft games are a whole other fuckin kettle of fish, and I'm also bad at them, so someone else should handle that. TL;DR on them: whammy constantly (even before holds) to get max SP, holds last the same amount of time always - ie, hit note late -> hold ends late. Weird stuff. GH1/2/80's actually all play fairly similar in regards to squeezing, while GH3-WoR have more weird nuances that make each game oh so slightly different
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Joined: 09 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndeadFil13QC wrote:
I'm not exactly sure how whammy works in other games but it seems like I had a peak in like 2008-2009 where I could actually get maximum whammy out of every sustain. Nowadays I tend to miss a lot of whammy at the beginning of sustains and I have no idea why, so I'm with you on that one. If someone has an explanation to that, please hit me up.

This has been a big problem for me, except just until now.

I had some deadzone in my whammy bar, as shown in this video

Doesn't seem like that big of a deal but I consistently lost whammy for the first 1 or 2 frames of every hold and it made it really hard to get any good squeezing done. I opened my SG and there was this thing attached to the whammy bar mechanism that I could loosen and turn a bit.

It has helped greatly since now the whammy bar got a reduced deadzone, however it had a side effect where the analog range goes from 0 to 100 real quick, but that doesn't really matter.
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Joined: 13 Dec 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I squeeze it hard. I am like you I'll practice it a little bit.
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