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Community vs Trogdor: Progress thread
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Pas26  





Joined: 04 Oct 2008
Posts: 3664
Location: Québec, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:44 pm    Post subject: Community vs Trogdor: Progress thread Reply with quote

Ok so since the last thread got closed because of multiple reasons, I got permission to make a new one since I thought this new community effort toward slaying this section was beautiful.


Here's eddaket video of the one strum 2 hits glitch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCLYAg-h1A4

Post methods, progress, theories, etc... in this thread.



I'll start by saying that I got no luck with the glitch and only managed a -4 strumming 14ish NPS. I did FC up to the orange once a long time ago.
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eddaket  





Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 2020

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good idea. As long as we keep the topic CIVIL, we should be fine. Couple things about my vid.

I was only able to get notes to overlap like that twice. First time I strummed 14 time (exaclty half) and hit 18. Even with two hopos, thats two overlaps. Unfortunatly, I wasn't recording as this was in the first couple runs I did. Second time is the one I got on video.

This is REALLY HARD TO DO. Like... REALLY HARD. To do this 14 times in a row makes you are a god in my book. It may be possible to FC the whole thing with this method but... that's some incredible precision.

I'm personally gonna keep working on it when I have the chance and see if I can do it some more .
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Yewb  





Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 3020
Location: Plymouth, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm personally gonna devote some time tomorrow to streaming Trogdor solo attempts, trying different methods in an attempt to find the chink in this song's armour... the chip in its windscreen... the 99 Lives code in its pre-PS1 platform game. Whatever. You know what I mean.

Ukog has said that it's impossible to overlap strums in PAL-60, but I don't know if I personally believe that. It might be the case that it's impossible - it might just be more difficult - but you can't strictly prove it's impossible, and it's therefore worth trying. Either way, I plan on trying it tomorrow on stream at some point. It'll be a laugh.
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expertwin wrote:
I just want to, you know, get my name out there. BTW, it updates every Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Was just the first two, decided to do Saturdays as well.
Serious advice now: No-one likes indecision in their work, so find what you like that you're even remotely good at, and stick with it. Don't flit from one thing to another, because that just smacks of a large lack of determination and drive. And people don't like you for that, and won't remember you for it. I mean, I get that you have a plucky spirit and a willingness to try new things, but there's a limit, man.
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LlamaYip  





Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 3151
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's all out war against Trogdor then!

My only concern about the 2/1 strum (let's call it that, I hate saying 2 notes 1 strum) is that the game will register the second note hit within that strum as being a regular strum anyways, which would nullify any advantages gained by 2/1 strumming.
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Papelplaysguitar  





Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 113
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just out curiosity, and in reply to this post in the other thread:

I talked to DiegotsBR - the best Dualshock player we have seen here - and asked him to try this solo. His best results were: FC yellows, -1 in blue and -4 in oranges, all in different runs. In his best run of the day, he said he got -6 in the strumming.

Of course, it's really out of question a FC coming from a Dualshock user... He and myself don't think there is a strum limit for DS, since he can do ~90% in Jordan solo C with no problems. I don't know what section would be faster (and at same time possible) for Diego to try in GH2 engine. If anyone has suggestions, feel free to talk.

Sorry if it doesn't contribute much in all these theories, I just didn't have time to reply JScrip, and decided to post here if anyone else wanted to see.
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Marbler  





Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Posts: 889

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally took a whack at this, and my best I got in runs was a -6, but I got a -3 in the solo and the section following. I know that's not much, but I've had some luck comboing the blue and yellow if I strum the RBOBYBOBYB right before it. You can get an insane jump on the timing window like that.

Let's say the chart looks like this:

--------
You can play it like this:
--------

I might have exaggerated that a little bit, but it's insane how early you can start the strumming. I've gotten consistant -5's strumming every hammeron in the entire section.
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Southparkhero  





Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 3251
Location: Some place in NJ.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I slowed down LethalFishEater's video frame by frame...



Looks like some notes are missing, 3 possibly. Don't know what it means but hopefully someone does.

Here are the frequencies for PAL and NTSC:

NTSC: 29.970 Hz
PAL: 25.000 Hz
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ShadoWolf  





Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 2034
Location: Slough, England

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Southparkhero wrote:
I slowed down LethalFishEater's video frame by frame...



Looks like some notes are missing, 3 possibly. Don't know what it means but hopefully someone does.

Here are the frequencies for PAL and NTSC:

NTSC: 29.970 Hz
PAL: 25.000 Hz
Was it LFE who did the method on Hard in the video? I seem to recall the strumming being a similar speed on Hard. I can't check the video out from where I am at the moment.
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eddaket  





Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 2020

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also another video to look at regarding strumming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud7B9Bbbll4

Watching this a few times helped immensely at FCing the solo (on PAL, but I haven't tried it on NTSC since the PAL thing got started).
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MajorGeek42  





Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



My ideas behind it, done in a sort of stream of consciousness fashion
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MasterNobody  





Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 2791
Location: Duxbury, MA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LlamaYip wrote:
It's all out war against Trogdor then!


Don't get burninated.

This thread is awesome, really interesting to see the community taking aim at one of the most uhh...mysterious mechanics in the GH series.
Dunno if it's really the aim of the thread, but if I see a Trogdor solo NTSC FC come out of this, I will personally bow down to and lick the feet of whoever does it.

COME ON YEEEAAHHH LETS GO TEAM GET EM GUYS W00T W00T
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LethalFishEater  





Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 2000
Location: I have less posts than bjw, who cares where I am.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadoWolf wrote:
Southparkhero wrote:
I slowed down LethalFishEater's video frame by frame...

[image snip]

Looks like some notes are missing, 3 possibly. Don't know what it means but hopefully someone does.

Here are the frequencies for PAL and NTSC:

NTSC: 29.970 Hz
PAL: 25.000 Hz
Was it LFE who did the method on Hard in the video? I seem to recall the strumming being a similar speed on Hard. I can't check the video out from where I am at the moment.
The speed on Hard is exactly the same on Expert. Anyway, I don't know what's going on there, stewo. Like I said in IRC, I think it's the millisecond between the note being hit and disappearing and the flame appearing to show you've hit it.
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Marbler  





Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Posts: 889

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So here's the best I've done so far. -4 in real runs, but I've gotten 2 -2's in the solo. I have a method (This is on the 360 btw, so the 2/1 strum glitch doesn't work (for me at least...)), and it has gotten me consistant -3's.
Here's approximately how it's charted:

Here's approximately how I play it:

I obviously don't do it in gallops like that, but that's the approximate speed I strum comparative to the actual strumming speed. The way I count it is: 4 downstrums for the yellows, 2 downstrums for the blues, and 8 downstrums for the oranges. My plan is to have an extremely lucky run where I not only start the strumming late, I end the strumming late, I strum slower than the actual strumming (surprisingly a lot slower), I use both the hammerons, and I screw up in a way that it makes me benefit (accidentally start the orange strumming late, allowing me to strum the 6th blue (5th after using the blue hammeron)).

So now, instead of 29 notes, it's 27 notes. Also, from my experience, the strum limit is not 16.1 as previously indicated in strikebowler's example, but it's 16.5, which would make this a lot more possible. We have 29 strums at 131 BPM in 32nd notes. That makes 17.4(6 "bar") NPS, and for 29 notes, that's 1.6603 seconds. Taking away 2 of the notes for hammerons alone turns it into 16.262 NPS, which is already supporting my theory, but let's make this even easier. Let's strum at 15.5 NPS. This now turns it into 1.7419 seconds we have to strum for, which allows for less than 50 MS on either end of the timing window. Let's make it even easier than that. Let's strum at a solid 15 NPS. This now makes it last for 1.8000 seconds, allowing for 100 MS on the front end, and approximately 40 MS on the back end. How does that happen?

My question for you now is this: Did no one FC this because it was truly impossible? Or did no one FC this simply because everyone got discouraged from trying this because of strikebowler's bogus math when he was really tired? (It says so in the post that he was tired...)
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eddaket  





Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 2020

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marbler wrote:
My question for you now is this: Did no one FC this because it was truly impossible? Or did no one FC this simply because everyone got discouraged from trying this because of strikebowler's bogus math when he was really tired? (It says so in the post that he was tired...)


Once strike switched to PAL for the first time and FCed it, I don't think anyone legitimately tried to FC it on NTSC after that. Being deemed impossible didn't help the cause either. I honestly think that if it is possible, it's a lack of effort that is causing it. Strike found out the PAL thing almost two years ago. People have gotten a lot better since then.

On another note, I have a few videos (I won't post them, nothing exciting) that I'm gonna slow down to get my own number for the strum limit. I'll let you guys know what I find.
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MarkAllen1988  





Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Posts: 815
Location: Lake Stevens, Washington

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck to all of those going for this, I have witnessed this in action, one time I was going for the FC on slowest trying to strum every note. It wasn't working so I slowed my strumming way down and I fcd it. My best on full speed was up to the second orange I think. It didn't feel like I was strumming all the notes at all. Like way slower yet still keeping combo. I personally don't think its possible to do it consecutively, as in strum one time for two notes more than once in a row. It seems to happen randomly. Kind of the reverse of dropping notes by strumming above the limit It would be awesome if that math was true. It almost seems possible if someone is a good squeezer and used both hopos and glitched at least one note. Ill try when I get a chance, doubt ill get anywhere but meh. I like marblers idea of strumming the hopos before the strumming. Maybe now that we're aware of a glitch that makes it 'possible', more people will go for the fc. I think its possible with some insane timing window manipulation. Its just way over looked because it is viewed as impossible. Let's get this guys!
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