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A friendly discussion on the merits of rap/hip-hop music
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evilpacman18  





Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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Location: Azusa, CA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NavyCherub wrote:
Well now I can't stop listening to Busdriver, thanks thread.

A new Busdriver fan. Some good has come of this thread.
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mninp  





Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I respect everyone's replys, but seriously, some people need to chill. If you got nothing nice to say, then don't post, it's just going to cause flame wars and shit. Anyway, yea I like BEastie Boys, Linkin Park, but I don't consider them rap. It's the instruments that do it for me. I can play guitar, drums and bass in real life so I have a passion for the instruments. Also, are you seriously telling me that All That Remains have no talent? Can you drum like that? His vocal ranges are good, the guitar work is good. I don't know why people say that old metal is better than new metal. It's all good to me. I'm open minded when it comes to metal. I have never said I didn't like a metal band. I'll always find something about a metal band I like. My 5 favorite bands are:

Megadeth
Metallica
Led Zeppelin
Iron Maiden
Testament

I just like rock and metal. Rap dosen't use instruments (most of the time) so then what's the point in the word "music"? I listen to music mostly for the talent, not really the sound. Although the sound of the music helps a lot too.
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footballtom3685  





Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 2478
Location: Bay Area, CA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok first of all, to all of you troll-spotting experts (ah yeah we definitely have a troll here, better post my rating and make everyone else in the thread feel stupid for taking it seriously), you're wrong. 0/10 for incorrectly spotting a troll. Unless he's been planning this trolling for 3 years, of course.
Having said that...
mninp wrote:
I respect everyone's replys, but seriously, some people need to chill. If you got nothing nice to say, then don't post, it's just going to cause flame wars and shit. Anyway, yea I like BEastie Boys, Linkin Park, but I don't consider them rap. It's the instruments that do it for me. I can play guitar, drums and bass in real life so I have a passion for the instruments. Also, are you seriously telling me that All That Remains have no talent? Can you drum like that? His vocal ranges are good, the guitar work is good. I don't know why people say that old metal is better than new metal. It's all good to me. I'm open minded when it comes to metal. I have never said I didn't like a metal band. I'll always find something about a metal band I like. My 5 favorite bands are:

Megadeth
Metallica
Led Zeppelin
Iron Maiden
Testament

I just like rock and metal. Rap dosen't use instruments (most of the time) so then what's the point in the word "music"? I listen to music mostly for the talent, not really the sound. Although the sound of the music helps a lot too.
Uh, wow. You really need to explore more rappers than Soulja Boy. Early hip-hop was almost entirely based on samples (i.e. taking snippets from other songs and combining them together to form a beat to rap over). You don't think that takes any talent? Try finding songs that might sound good together, chopping them up, mixing them back together, and making that sound decent. Most of these samples come from jazz, and a lot come from rock. Some even come from metal. For instance, Kanye West's new single, Power, samples 21st Century Schizoid Man. I'm a big fan of a bunch of 90's hip-hop, a lot of which samples jazzy stuff, like A Tribe Called Quest's Luck of Lucien. There's even a lot of incredibly good instrumental hip-hop, if you don't like the rapping itself, like DJ Shadow's Building Steam With a Grain of Salt or Mos Def's May-December. All of this, of course, is based off of samples from real instruments. I'm willing to bet you've never even bothered listening to any of this kind of hip-hop. Don't you think you should at least give it a chance, rather than writing off an entire genre (a genre which you actually like artists from! Beastie Boys are rappers whether you like it or not).

Your view of music as a whole is incredibly silly and close-minded. It's a little sad that you literally don't listen to music based on how good it sounds, but rather how talented one has to be to play it. You're missing the whole point. That would be like, I dunno, only enjoying movies with top-of-the-line special effects. So I guess Avatar would be the only movie you enjoy, ever.

All I ask is that you give some really good hip-hop a chance. Along with my recommendations you've been given a ton of solid recommendations in this thread. Listen to any one of the songs recommended to you and I guarantee you will like it more than probably 99% of hip-hop you've heard. Also, since you like the Beastie Boys, have you not considered that there are other groups very similar to them, and thus you would probably enjoy them too? What if somebody told you they liked Megadeth but they hated metal? Wouldn't you think they were crazy? (How can you like a metal band but say metal sucks!? How can you not like ___, ____, ___, and ____?! They're all really similar style to Megadeth!)

P.S. I'm going to go ahead and change the thread title to better reflect what this thread could and should be, especially because the current thread title means that you wish a band you like never existed (Beastie Boys).
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evilpacman18  





Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 948
Location: Azusa, CA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, more and more rappers are going for live instrumentation and big bands at their live shows. Just listen to Sage Francis' newest album. If you say you like instruments so much, you should be listening to Rap, not Rock, as Rap typically employs dozens of different instruments whereas Rock only sticks to guitars and drums.

Tons of Jazz Hop makes use of some really impressive jazzy compositions that focus on the music more than the actual lyrics, such as Digable Planets. (Listen to the end of this song for the awesome guitar solo) Most Hip-Hop producers play different instruments and almost all of them have a very good knowledge of music and theory and a fantastic ear for music which is, as footballtom (new favorite mod) stated, required for finding and piecing together samples like in this song by Pharoahe Monch where DJ Scratch (the producer) created an amazing sample off a classic Jazz piece by Oliver Nelson.

Also, this.
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MetalheadNorm  





Joined: 21 May 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

evilpacman18 wrote:
Rock only sticks to guitars and drums.


That's strike two for you, man.
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evilpacman18  





Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 948
Location: Azusa, CA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MetalheadNorm wrote:
evilpacman18 wrote:
Rock only sticks to guitars and drums.


That's strike two for you, man.

This one's my fault. I forgot to add "for the most part." Sorry about that.
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Enchiridion  





Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Posts: 663
Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

evilpacman18 wrote:
MetalheadNorm wrote:
evilpacman18 wrote:
Rock only sticks to guitars and drums.


That's strike two for you, man.

This one's my fault. I forgot to add "for the most part." Sorry about that.


Actually, for the most part, it also includes amps, pedals, basses, microphones, and musicians that can actually set up and play said instruments with a degree of skill. Let's not degrade someone for their ignorance and then exercise your own in the same post from now on. ;]

I don't see how anyone could ever think that taking pieces of music that is already made and patching it together is in any way more creative than the music's creation itself. I'm a big fan of hip-hop and beats and all that jazz, but I don't for one second entertain the idea that being talented at assembling music comes close to making it from scratch.

Just because someone said something you don't agree with, doesn't mean you have to take an extremist, and pretty stupid, stand point in your defense of the subject matter. You can acknowledge that both forms are genuine in their own right. I mean, it's possible to do that.
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Eastwinn  





Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 2853
Location: Anne Arundel County, Maryland

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

footballtom3685 wrote:
Ok first of all, to all of you troll-spotting experts (ah yeah we definitely have a troll here, better post my rating and make everyone else in the thread feel stupid for taking it seriously), you're wrong. 0/10 for incorrectly spotting a troll. Unless he's been planning this trolling for 3 years, of course.


Erm, he clearly made this thread to enrage people. I have good faith saying that no one on this site is stupid enough to think that rap has an objective advantage or disadvantage when compared to another genre.
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FreeXBird  





Joined: 24 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Erm, he clearly made this thread to discuss it. God forbid anybody have an opinion other than yours. Obviously if it IS different than yours, they're only saying it to make you mad. So is Stephen Hawking the world's biggest troll to Christians? Was *insertfamousChristianhere* just a huge troll to atheists? Those examples are a little extreme, but I'm pretty sure this dude's not trying to troll or "enrage people". Sure he's a little ignorant and close-minded, but that doesn't mean he's trying to be.
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thecaptainof  





Joined: 04 May 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

evilpacman18 wrote:
Also, this.


Broseph... if we're gonna go Plan B... NO MORE EATIN' FOR DEM NOW... NO MORE EATIN FOR DEM NOW BLAAAAD.

Just sayin'.
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tornintwo  





Joined: 08 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am like you, I cannot stand rap for the most part (and yes I have listened to a lot of 80's and early 90's rap as well as, unfortunately, some of the 00's rap) but there are definitely a few artists that I really like in there (OutKast comes to mind) and recently I found this GREAT album from the early 90's. It's called Heavy Rhyme Experience Vol. 1 by The Brand New Heavies. I listened to some of their other albums and didn't like the style, but on this one they basically perform one big jam song after song with a fat jazz/funk sound (pretty full sound, as opposed to some records that make the same claim) and the rappers freestyling over top (I think they are anyways, sounds like it). So give it a listen people!
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evilpacman18  





Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OutKast is GOAT. Andre 3000 is the most versatile composer since Robert Fripp.
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Twang  





Joined: 05 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't listened to him much myself but I hear Kid Cudi is good.
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evilpacman18  





Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 948
Location: Azusa, CA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enchiridion wrote:
evilpacman18 wrote:
MetalheadNorm wrote:
evilpacman18 wrote:
Rock only sticks to guitars and drums.


That's strike two for you, man.

This one's my fault. I forgot to add "for the most part." Sorry about that.


Actually, for the most part, it also includes amps, pedals, basses, microphones, and musicians that can actually set up and play said instruments with a degree of skill. Let's not degrade someone for their ignorance and then exercise your own in the same post from now on. ;]

I don't see how anyone could ever think that taking pieces of music that is already made and patching it together is in any way more creative than the music's creation itself. I'm a big fan of hip-hop and beats and all that jazz, but I don't for one second entertain the idea that being talented at assembling music comes close to making it from scratch.

Just because someone said something you don't agree with, doesn't mean you have to take an extremist, and pretty stupid, stand point in your defense of the subject matter. You can acknowledge that both forms are genuine in their own right. I mean, it's possible to do that.

Ok it was a bit late to respond to this at the time I came on. Now I can though. "Amps, pedals, basses, microphones, and musicians" are accessories to the guitars and drums. A typical rock band has one or two guitarists, a bass guitarist, and a drummer. The microphone isn't an instrument. Idk what you're even talking about here. I'm not saying this is wrong that they stick to those instruments and certainly didn't mean it in any derogatory way, I'm just saying that when Hip-Hop producers use instruments, they use more.

Also, I wasn't saying that sampling is a more arduous process than composing the music, I was saying that it's a lot harder than people give it credit for and it actually does require massive amounts of talent. But then again, more and more producers are going for actual live instrumentation and composing much more complex pieces than most Rock musicians which leads me to believe that producers have had all that talent the whole time, they just manifested it differently.
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augthebomb  





Joined: 20 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you venture really far into the Hip-Hop/Rap genre and do some research, you'll realize that not all of it is bad. The stuff that is played on the radio is usually lacking in lyrical content original beats and makes me want to punch the "artist" in the face (exceptions being B.o.B, Cee Lo, and Jay-Z). However, if you look into underground stuff and listen to the above mentioned artists, then you'll find often find great lyrics and occasionally a rock/metal-ish rhythm with kick ass guitar riffs.
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