| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
voidedalive2x 
Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 7922
Location: jefferson city, MO
|
 Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:51 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Fugitive wrote: | | voidedalive2x wrote: | | I heavily dislike smoking, and I would much prefer it if no one ever did. However, I and/or my family must allow smokers into my household sometimes, and we tell them that they must smoke outside if they want to at all. I don't like what they're doing, and no way in hell would I ever, but I must tolerate their habit for as long as I must, and enforce what rules I can to ensure that the time goes as smoothly as possible. |
You're not in a position to tell people how to live their lives though whereas Christians believe that God is, so that analogy falls short. This is why I hate argument by analogy, you'll never find one that fits the situation perfectly so debate the issue itself. |
I know I'm not, just like Christians couldn't go around telling people to give up slavery.
Now, you do ask why God doesn't essentially just up and remove slavery, is that what I'm seeing? If it is, then many people in the world probably wouldn't even consider joining with him because one of their prime industries and such is gone. It sounds a lot like I'm saying it's about getting followers, but sadly that's the best argument I can come up with at this point.
| Fugitive wrote: | | voidedalive2x wrote: | Similarly, Christians at the time may have been very anti-slavery, but were in no power to give rules against it, but only give rules for slaves and slaveowners to abide by.
(I feel like I fudged the analogy horribly, but I hope you get my point.) |
Wow, I seriously responded to the analogy first and thread read your second half of the post and you seem to understand the fallacy. :P |
No, I don't think I understand the fallacy. I just think I used a very bad analogy to prove my point.
Also, "thread read"? Was that supposed to say "then read"?
| Fugitive wrote: | | IIRC though, that was Jesus (who Christians believe is Yahweh) directly saying the rules about slavery, and Christians should believe that their god does have the power to make rules against it being that they think he's omnipotent and all. |
If Jesus went around outlawing slavery and such, he'd have been killed within a week without completing his mission. Sounds simple enough to me, but I'm betting you have fault with that, and I'm not entirely sure I can answer you satisfactorily.
You may think I'm deciding to cop out, and I might be, but at this point I cannot safely argue without making a complete fool of myself in trying to argue this point. Can we agree to disagree?
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
TheLonging
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 4191
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| voidedalive2x wrote: | | If Jesus went around outlawing slavery and such, he'd have been killed within a week without completing his mission. |
But then that's a direct contradiction to what God said numerous times (and Jesus too), about him staying alive and how the Pharisees and guards didn't kill him yet because it was not his time.
_________________
I wanna thank you for letting me be myself.
| NavyCherub wrote: | | AshleyWilis wrote: | hi for me Its something different...
It seems like Full sound full combo...
I mean It show passion and determination for my guitar |
Smoke weed erryday. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ready2rock
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 1738
Location: somewhere in this vast universe
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'll throw in free will as a possible reason that He didn't just do away with slavery. He's trying to point us in the right direction of how to live life by his scripture, but He's not going to change it all for us (eg POOF slavery is no more).
Edit: better worded, respond to this instead of what I had before.
_________________
 
 
REREAD YOUR POSTS BEFORE YOU SUBMIT THEM!!!
Posts that win: this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this whole thread, this, these, this, this |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
voidedalive2x
Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 7922
Location: jefferson city, MO
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| TheLonging wrote: | | voidedalive2x wrote: | | If Jesus went around outlawing slavery and such, he'd have been killed within a week without completing his mission. |
But then that's a direct contradiction to what God said numerous times (and Jesus too), about him staying alive and how the Pharisees and guards didn't kill him yet because it was not his time. |
Okay, that's true, but it would've severely hampered his mission when he was teaching to people.
ready2rock: Very true.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Southparkhero
Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 3251
Location: Some place in NJ.
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
Ferretgod, you're telling people to "research" whatever these ridiculous misogynist bible verses are saying / DONT EAT SHELLFISH, while you present absolutely no evidence towards your argument. So how about you do some research, because clearly you have not.
_________________
sdfadf |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Shikka
Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 402
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
I know I'm very late to join this discussion but I have to say something real quick.
Christians always infuriate me for numerous reasons when they use the "you don't understand/ out of context" argument. First of all, they almost never bother to actually explain what the particular verse actually means and if they do the argument is extremely weak. It's usually just "you need to really read the bible to understand" as if I was reading their precious holy book the wrong way. I've actually read the part of the bible with those verses and I fail to see how their out of context.
Which leads me to my next point. This is a book supposedly inspired by god. Why am I having such a problem understanding it then? Honestly, I expect a book such as this to be perfectly clear in its message. Why should I have to resort to listening to theologists and religious leaders to understand it?
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ferretgod
Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 276
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Southparkhero wrote: | | Ferretgod, you're telling people to "research" whatever these ridiculous misogynist bible verses are saying / DONT EAT SHELLFISH, while you present absolutely no evidence towards your argument. So how about you do some research, because clearly you have not. |
I did my research a few years ago when I became a Christian. Like I said, you guys are cherry picking verses from a google search, if you were truly objective you'd see what the other side has to say. Why should I do for you what you guys failed to do on your own? If you want websites and other resources to point you to then I will, no problem. But I am not about to respond to several different verses you posed and already gave a rebuttal to without even hearing the argument. It's pointless.
_________________
I couldn't resist lulz
"I am not so shocked that Obama was given the Nobel Peace Prize without any accomplishments to his name, because America gave him the White House based on the same credentials." ~Newt Gingrich
"To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt." - Thomas Jefferson
"What was wrong with communism wasn't aberrant leadership, it was communism" - William F. Buckley, Jr. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HellAshes
Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 8320
Location: Livingston, NY
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
I know I said I didn't partake in religious discussion, but I've heard a saying that someone else here could probably explain to me. "If you want to become an Atheist, read the bible cover to cover." I've never once even looked inside a Bible before (My family isn't to religious) so I'm not entirely sure what is meant with this saying. I have heard that the bible has a lot of strange stories involving rape, prejudice, murder and such, but reading things like that would "drive a person to become Atheist."
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GesterX
Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 1242
Location: Birmingham, UK
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| HellAshes wrote: | | I know I said I didn't partake in religious discussion, but I've heard a saying that someone else here could probably explain to me. "If you want to become an Atheist, read the bible cover to cover." I've never once even looked inside a Bible before (My family isn't to religious) so I'm not entirely sure what is meant with this saying. I have heard that the bible has a lot of strange stories involving rape, prejudice, murder and such, but reading things like that would "drive a person to become Atheist." |
This is actually what happened to me. When I was about 17 I was still a Christian and I decided I should read the book of my faith all the way through to understand where my beliefs come from. It didn't take long for me to spot numerous contradictions, odd passages with seemingly illogical content, and things that just "didn't make sense". Of course I found numerous apologist explanations on the Internet but for the first time I was really questioning my faith. SO I decided to objectively analyse my faith logically and rationally. Long story short... I am now an Atheist and have been for the last 4 years.
This is just my personal experience but it relates well to the "If you want to become an Atheist, read the bible cover to cover." quote. For a better insight watch this EXCELLENT video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70SYwkoH_yc
His experience is very similar to mine! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GesterX
Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 1242
Location: Birmingham, UK
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| HellAshes wrote: | | I know I said I didn't partake in religious discussion, but I've heard a saying that someone else here could probably explain to me. "If you want to become an Atheist, read the bible cover to cover." I've never once even looked inside a Bible before (My family isn't to religious) so I'm not entirely sure what is meant with this saying. I have heard that the bible has a lot of strange stories involving rape, prejudice, murder and such, but reading things like that would "drive a person to become Atheist." |
This is actually what happened to me. When I was about 17 I was still a Christian and I decided I should read the book of my faith all the way through to understand where my beliefs come from. It didn't take long for me to spot numerous contradictions, odd passages with seemingly illogical content, and things that just "didn't make sense". Of course I found numerous apologist explanations on the Internet but for the first time I was really questioning my faith. SO I decided to objectively analyse my faith logically and rationally. Long story short... I am now an Atheist and have been for the last 4 years.
This is just my personal experience but it relates well to the "If you want to become an Atheist, read the bible cover to cover." quote. For a better insight watch this EXCELLENT video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70SYwkoH_yc
His experience is very similar to mine! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Southparkhero
Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 3251
Location: Some place in NJ.
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ferretgod wrote: | | Southparkhero wrote: | | Ferretgod, you're telling people to "research" whatever these ridiculous misogynist bible verses are saying / DONT EAT SHELLFISH, while you present absolutely no evidence towards your argument. So how about you do some research, because clearly you have not. |
I did my research a few years ago when I became a Christian. Like I said, you guys are cherry picking verses from a google search, if you were truly objective you'd see what the other side has to say. Why should I do for you what you guys failed to do on your own? If you want websites and other resources to point you to then I will, no problem. But I am not about to respond to several different verses you posed and already gave a rebuttal to without even hearing the argument. It's pointless. |
MY ARGUMENT IS THAT THE BIBLE IS MISOGYNISTIC AND ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE YOU CAN'T EAT SHELLFISH
CAN YOU READ THIS NOW? I HOPE CAPS LOCK HELPS.
_________________
sdfadf |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LlamaYip 
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 3151
Location: Chicago, IL
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Shikka wrote: | | Which leads me to my next point. This is a book supposedly inspired by god. Why am I having such a problem understanding it then? Honestly, I expect a book such as this to be perfectly clear in its message. Why should I have to resort to listening to theologists and religious leaders to understand it? |
What don't you understand?
_________________
My Youtube | My Accomplishments | Total Hard FCs: 723/725 | My Stream | GenericName 
Latest Hard FC: Through the Fire and Flames GH3 | GH1: 47/47 GH2: 62/64 GH80S: 30/30 GH3: 70/70 GHA: 41/41 GHWT: 86/86 GHM: 49/49 GHSH: 48/48 GH5: 85/85 GHVH: 47/47 BH: 65/65 GHWOR: 93/93
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Brockbfball1563
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 3245
Location: Rochester, NH
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ferretgod wrote: | | Southparkhero wrote: | | Ferretgod, you're telling people to "research" whatever these ridiculous misogynist bible verses are saying / DONT EAT SHELLFISH, while you present absolutely no evidence towards your argument. So how about you do some research, because clearly you have not. |
I did my research a few years ago when I became a Christian. Like I said, you guys are cherry picking verses from a google search, if you were truly objective you'd see what the other side has to say. Why should I do for you what you guys failed to do on your own? If you want websites and other resources to point you to then I will, no problem. But I am not about to respond to several different verses you posed and already gave a rebuttal to without even hearing the argument. It's pointless. |
| Brockbfball1563 wrote: | | ferretgod wrote: | | Yeah, I've read it before. I get why you would post it. It does seem pretty bad on the surface. That's why I decided to look into it further when I encountered it a few years ago. |
| 1 Peter 3:15 wrote: | | But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect |
My favorite Bible verse. God's commanding you to give us the answers we seek, so speak!
And again, why is that everything that's seemingly bad and/or completely illogical in the Bible is ALWAYS either taken out of context (according to Christians) or has some hidden meaning that only Christians can figure out? And at the same time, how come all the "good" stuff in the Bible is never taken out of context when Christians talk about how great God is? Maybe the good stuff doesn't actually mean what you think it does. |
Seems you missed my post the other day. Why should you answer us? Because your god tells you to. Unless, of course, this is yet another verse that's taken out of context. So please, enlighten us.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Shikka
Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 402
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LlamaYip wrote: | | Shikka wrote: | | Which leads me to my next point. This is a book supposedly inspired by god. Why am I having such a problem understanding it then? Honestly, I expect a book such as this to be perfectly clear in its message. Why should I have to resort to listening to theologists and religious leaders to understand it? |
What don't you understand? |
Ah I'm sorry I should have been more clear. It was really late at night and I was tired. Anyway, that part was a follow up to the last paragraph about it being out of context. Christians always tell me that I do not understand and need to do more research. The point I was trying to make is that I feel that I should not have to do more research on a book supposedly inspired by god to understand it. The book should be able to hold its own. If this is the best God can do, he/she/it is incompetent at best.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PiemanLK
Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 4711
Location: /export/home
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ferretgod wrote: | | Like I said, you guys are cherry picking verses from a google search |
Actually we're taking them right from the Bible.
| ferretgod wrote: | | if you were truly objective you'd see what the other side has to say. |
We have.
| ferretgod wrote: | | Why should I do for you what you guys failed to do on your own? |
Because you're not excused from having to back up your argument.
| ferretgod wrote: | | But I am not about to respond to several different verses you posed and already gave a rebuttal to without even hearing the argument. It's pointless. |
Oh okay so you're quitting.
_________________
[quote=''Otend'']Id come up with a long post, but Pieman said what we are all thinking, as usual[/quote]
[quote=''youhas'']EDIT TO ADD: Hey, post #3000! Neat! I will eagerly anticipate my set of ScoreHero-branded steak knives within six to eight weeks.[/quote]
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Copyright © 2006-2024 ScoreHero, LLC
|
Powered by phpBB
|
![Inbox [ Login ]](templates/subSilver/images/icon_mini_message.gif){kind=icon}
Inbox [ Login ]
Search
Memberlist
Profile
Log in
