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inv4der
Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 9656
Location: Meridian, ID
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 Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Kinitawowi wrote: | This Chrono Trigger run was pretty much the moment I decided I only cared about 100% runs. I have literally no clue what is going on at any point during that video. I'd like to think that a speedrun should be a demonstration of skill and planning that any of the rest of us putzes could achieve given that level of dedication, not a race to rewrite the game's code.
Also, fuck the Excalibur II. |
Honestly I've always thought this attitude is a little short sighted, especially when based on a video that is very clearly tool assisted. Anyone can tell you a TAS is not so much skill as knowledge of legitimate engine quirks, and that the point is to show exactly what can be done, even if none of it is feasible in real time. (See: a large percentage of stars in the new 120 star TAS of SM64.)
There's actually a TAS of LTTP that uses only real time strategies, the so called "god TAS" that is equivalent to the optimal possible run on the game. It's the standard length required to beat all bosses (well, it's faster by a decent amount, but still totally doable in real time), despite the fact that the sub-10 minute strat is so possible in real time that it was done in one try live at a marathon.
Real time any% runs have large amounts of skill and planning, even if they use the same tricks the TASes do, simply because in real time, the runner doesn't get the luxury of retrying things (unless it's segmented) or frame advance (save for pause buffering, which eats real time seconds). The skill needed to get the real time records in 0 star SM64 (sub-10 minutes) or any% OoT (sub-20) is very high, it's just not in the exact one intended by the developers.
Even 100% runs can heavily abuse glitches and unintended things. Again, the SM64 120 star TAS or even Siglemic's real time WR.
Speedrunning is about getting through a game quickly, pure and simple, the category doesn't matter. If something in the game makes reaching the end faster, they'll use it. And sometimes a category will be broken by some trick and become a new one. This is while there's four for SM64 even though 0 star is obviously the fastest possible "any%" and 120 is 100%.
To specifically address that Chrono Trigger TAS, the menu and map movement is hard to follow or outright bizarre because the guy playing had the ability to do frame perfect inputs, as well as the ability to manipulate RNG perfectly. This is something that will always happen in TASes, especially RPGs, where lots of time is gained or lost based on manipulation of the various gameplay elements.
I invite you to compare that TAS with the real time runs documented on SDA: http://speeddemosarchive.com/ChronoTrigger.html
I can promise you that you could, with dedication and knowledge, reach those same times or even beat them.
EDIT: Regarding TASes that make zero sense, there's always the FF1 solo White Mage TAS. The final boss kills itself. 
Also, here's the comments for the newer Chrono Trigger TAS, which is sub-5 minutes: http://tasvideos.org/3606S.html and here's the comments for the 21 minute one you linked: http://tasvideos.org/2240S.html
Hopefully that clears things up a little?
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WhYYZ
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 3150
Location: The netherlands, Amsterdam
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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Wow....
I've been on 8-4 without skipping only once. But even with skipping I couldn't get passed 8-4. That's just...
Wow....
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GregoryZero 
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 2338
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| Kinitawowi wrote: | | I have literally no clue what is going on at any point during that video. I'd like to think that a speedrun should be a demonstration of skill and planning that any of the rest of us putzes could achieve given that level of dedication, not a race to rewrite the game's code. |
That's why speedruns are completely different than TAS's. They are only semi-related since the run paths they use sometimes overlap. If you've ever watched a TAS, they almost always have a disclaimer saying that it isn't a test of skill.
inv4der basically said everything else I wanted to say.
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TQSG
Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 1054
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
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Mr.Scientist
Joined: 26 Dec 2007
Posts: 1828
Location: Quebec City, QC
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bjwdestroyer
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
Posts: 4785
Location: I have more posts than you, who cares where I am.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:38 am Post subject: |
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UndeadFil13QC 
Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 3386
Location: Montreal, QC, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:27 am Post subject: |
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About 3 hours short from my best, but still, the run time is hilarious. This shouldn't even be considered a speedrun since it was done in many sittings. I'll try to optimize this some day and maybe do it under 10 hours. Pretty tough since I'm also including the small bananas as part of the 100%...
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MehPlusRawr
Joined: 20 Jul 2009
Posts: 1389
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:41 am Post subject: |
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Barfo?
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inv4der
Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 9656
Location: Meridian, ID
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:48 am Post subject: |
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While the best run of the marathon, Pocky and Rocky, is already over (It will live on in our hearts!), they have two days left and they're over 210k.
Go donate if you can, if not, just enjoy the runs! (and pad the viewer count, more games should beat League!)
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Brockbfball1563 
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 3245
Location: Rochester, NH
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:09 am Post subject: |
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I've been tuning in and out throughout the marathon. Love watching this stuff.
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inv4der
Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 9656
Location: Meridian, ID
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:38 am Post subject: |
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I really need a way to record stuff... 
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bjwdestroyer
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
Posts: 4785
Location: I have more posts than you, who cares where I am.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:37 am Post subject: |
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sorasgoof
Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 2314
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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I've picked up Paper Mario All Cards. Going to start streaming soon.
FrankerZ
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this1neguy
Joined: 19 Aug 2007
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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PiemanLK
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