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nickb611
Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 3731
Location: Villanova, PA
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 Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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I would recommend posting this in the dB guide.. Found here:
http://www.scorehero.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13208
However, some of the things you've addressed seemed to be mentioned in that thread, one way or another.
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BootsMegamix
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 253
Location: Buffalo, NY
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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Trust me I thought about it and if I thought people read that thread, I wouldn't have posted it here.
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GHCity
Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Posts: 1086
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| I can't see the pictures... just a box with a red x... otherwise, this needs to be stickied (in my opinion.) |
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BrianSpud33
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 486
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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Great guide... I was considering making a video explaining all of this.
One thing I'd like to suggest is to use the Metronome (the M key) rather than the claps to judge the sync, because the claps just play the notes rather than the beat of the song. Some people still go through everything with 48th notes, and even thought the claps line up, the tempo isn't even close.
Also, dB's anchoring system is a godsend and deserves a mention, since it figures out the BPM for you given that you line up the right number of measures and have the beat at each anchor exactly on.
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Chil
Joined: 05 Jan 2007
Posts: 850
Location: Delaware
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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It's a good start for a guide. One thing I would add is mentioning that you can slow down the music up to .5x speed with the "/" key. This helps alot with claps and listening for sync.
However, you say that .1 bpm makes the difference in a good chart. From my experience, GHex - and consequently the burned game - doesn't accept any fractions of a bpm in a chart (just as irregular time signatures aren't valid). All bpm changes are rounded down to the nearest whole bpm when imported into GHex, and therefore the sync can get really messy in some points of your song. It is a mistake in my mind to rely solely on Feedback for the sync in your chart. |
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BootsMegamix
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 253
Location: Buffalo, NY
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| BrianSpud33 wrote: | Great guide... I was considering making a video explaining all of this.
One thing I'd like to suggest is to use the Metronome (the M key) rather than the claps to judge the sync, because the claps just play the notes rather than the beat of the song. Some people still go through everything with 48th notes, and even thought the claps line up, the tempo isn't even close.
Also, dB's anchoring system is a godsend and deserves a mention, since it figures out the BPM for you given that you line up the right number of measures and have the beat at each anchor exactly on. |
I guess it boils down to personal preference. I find the metronome annoying, and the claps sync up with the notes you're using instead of superfluous ones. Otherwise, yeah I guess that works too. I know you're very meticulous about your syncing. I used my sync skills acquired from StepMania charts to synch charts in dB for writing this guide because that's how I've been doing it for years.
| Chil wrote: | | It's a good start for a guide. One thing I would add is mentioning that you can slow down the music up to .5x speed with the "/" key. This helps alot with claps and listening for sync. |
I did.
| Quote: | | However, you say that .1 bpm makes the difference in a good chart. From my experience, GHex - and consequently the burned game - doesn't accept any fractions of a bpm in a chart (just as irregular time signatures aren't valid). All bpm changes are rounded down to the nearest whole bpm when imported into GHex, and therefore the sync can get really messy in some points of your song. It is a mistake in my mind to rely solely on Feedback for the sync in your chart. |
Are you sure about that? Because I think if that's the case, a lot of charts I've tested would have been pretty off in GHex. I would think it's kind of silly for the game not to accept fractioned BPM's, especially since rhythm games have been running about a decade now and they're definitely no stranger to it.
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BrianSpud33
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 486
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| BootsMegamix wrote: |
| Chil wrote: | | However, you say that .1 bpm makes the difference in a good chart. From my experience, GHex - and consequently the burned game - doesn't accept any fractions of a bpm in a chart (just as irregular time signatures aren't valid). All bpm changes are rounded down to the nearest whole bpm when imported into GHex, and therefore the sync can get really messy in some points of your song. It is a mistake in my mind to rely solely on Feedback for the sync in your chart. |
Are you sure about that? Because I think if that's the case, a lot of charts I've tested would have been pretty off in GHex. I would think it's kind of silly for the game not to accept fractioned BPM's, especially since rhythm games have been running about a decade now and they're definitely no stranger to it. |
To be honest, Chil, Boots is right. I know what you're talking about, in that GHex displays the rounded-off BPM, but I'm confident that it doesn't actually round anything... bands that play to clicks don't always use whole numbers, and bands that don't play to clicks can be all over the place with the tempo, so if you had to use only whole numbers, no charts would be any good.
Fractions of a BPM do make a huge difference. Here's an example... If you have a 4 minute song at 150 BPM, but you set the BPM to 150.1 instead, your chart will be one-half of a beat off by the end of the song. That means you'll have to strum one eighth-note ahead of what you're hearing, which is completely and utterly unplayable.
In fact, I think it's quite the opposite... it's a mistake to rely on GHex for syncing, as you have to go off of a visual cue while listening to the music. FeedBack provides several audio-based options, all of which work well for creating perfectly-synced charts.
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Sottle 
Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 3050
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tarod83
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 506
Location: Córdoba, Spain
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Sottle wrote: | GHex and Guitar Hero both definitely recognise decimal BPM's.
I remember i was having trouble getting a ChrisVance chart to sync back before the days of Feedback and someone told me they had the same problem and had reduced the tempo by 0.68bpm and it worked perfectly. |
What he said, absolutely.
Good starting guide. An expansion on dB's anchoring feature would be great. Oh and I'll translate it into Spanish ASAP, if you don't mind. |
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Chil
Joined: 05 Jan 2007
Posts: 850
Location: Delaware
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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Aha. Thank you all for fixing that up for me.
I have been searching throughout the threads in this board for an actual answer. I always assumed what was present in Ghex is what is burned into the game (if you export the chart as a midi with Ghex, the bpms are all rounded, so that's another reason why I thought otherwise).
Also, I just found the whole slowdown line. Yeah, I hope it wasn't just me who missed that. It's kinda just there as an afterthought kinda thing. Perhaps the guide could have a section to point out less commonly known features of Feedback, and that would be one of them. Again, sorry for missing it. |
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BootsMegamix
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 253
Location: Buffalo, NY
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:02 am Post subject: |
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| tarod83 wrote: | | Sottle wrote: | GHex and Guitar Hero both definitely recognise decimal BPM's.
I remember i was having trouble getting a ChrisVance chart to sync back before the days of Feedback and someone told me they had the same problem and had reduced the tempo by 0.68bpm and it worked perfectly. |
What he said, absolutely.
Good starting guide. An expansion on dB's anchoring feature would be great. Oh and I'll translate it into Spanish ASAP, if you don't mind. |
Thank you. I'll try and get the hang of using anchors and see how they work for me since I never really messed with them. Really as far as I know, either method is effective.
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Finalizer
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 1413
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:19 am Post subject: |
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Wonderful guide, I must say. I hope more users see this and try their hand at making properly synced charts in the future. 
One thing I might add (Just a personal thing), is this: If you want, you could try to get what I like to call a "pre-sync", where you go through the song and sync up every measure to the drum (Not the guitar), using the metronome as a guide, and only changing BPM every 4-8 beats (Maybe more, if the band is nice and stays synced for a while). Then, after all this is done, place the notes (Which should now be ~90% in sync), and then go through and add any extra tempo changes needed to ensure complete guitar sync. I find that this has seriously helped me cut down time in charting, and would be helpful in setting up a base to build off of.
EDIT: Almost forgot, here's another vote for a sticky.  |
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buttfaceninja
Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 1567
Location: Springfield OH
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| BrianSpud33 wrote: | Great guide... I was considering making a video explaining all of this.
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I would still like to see a video as im sure it would help people to understand how this works better.
Im also told the anchors work wonders but I still don't fully understand them.
Good start though. |
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thespike
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Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 3198
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:18 am Post subject: |
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Yeah this is exactly how I do it.
I use the same Mixmeister program and always have claps on.
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BootsMegamix
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 253
Location: Buffalo, NY
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:29 am Post subject: |
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| Finalizer wrote: | Wonderful guide, I must say. I hope more users see this and try their hand at making properly synced charts in the future.
One thing I might add (Just a personal thing), is this: If you want, you could try to get what I like to call a "pre-sync", where you go through the song and sync up every measure to the drum (Not the guitar), using the metronome as a guide, and only changing BPM every 4-8 beats (Maybe more, if the band is nice and stays synced for a while). Then, after all this is done, place the notes (Which should now be ~90% in sync), and then go through and add any extra tempo changes needed to ensure complete guitar sync. I find that this has seriously helped me cut down time in charting, and would be helpful in setting up a base to build off of.
EDIT: Almost forgot, here's another vote for a sticky. |
This is a good idea especially for beginners, because I used to do the same thing. Added to the first post.
| tarod83 wrote: |
Good starting guide. An expansion on dB's anchoring feature would be great. Oh and I'll translate it into Spanish ASAP, if you don't mind. |
Go ahead
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