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Explaning the New League Points System (S6 and on)
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rabies  





Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2442
Location: Columbia, Maryland

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

points at barfo's thread above.

See? I am just the really pretty face of the leagues...the brains of this operation should now be obvious to all.

..and elx? ...well...he just likes to whack things...mostly cheating players....
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RocketMan  





Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 1189
Location: Rapid City, SD

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt276 wrote:
Nice job barfo, that is a pretty nice polynomial - I have no idea how you came up with that, but whatever, it definitely does the job.

RocketMan wrote:
Just my idea, as far as scoring goes...
Why not just start the winner of the song at, say 100 points, no matter how many people are entered. Then -1 for each place down. ...or you could -2 for the first ten, then -1 for the rest, whatever. To the best of my knowledge there has never been more than 100 people in one division. Hey, for anything, you could start at 50...then -1.
I just think it would be a lot easier to figure out, it would keep the overall rank a little closer, and overall it would make more sense (or at least it does to me).
Anyway...thats just my 2 cents...take it for what its worth.


The system you're suggesting is very similar to the system the leagues have used before. The problem with the old system is that it had to be slightly adapted for each different number of players. Your system has the same problem - what if there are 101 players? You would need to adjust for different numbers of players. Barfo's system works for any number of players.

Well, the reason I suggested that is because I don't think that I've seen a 100+ League/division (at least since Season 2). But, yeah, I should have waited to post that. I didn't quite understand Barfo's way of doing it...and thought that it would be quite a bit more confusing. If I would have just waited a day or two...I would have realized that his way is really cool...and probably, one of the best I've seen.
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Niall  





Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 224
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See people? And you thought Calculus and other Math problems-solving would be of no use in real life... The new system is completely scalable and fair. A little less easy to grasp, other than showing the function's chart to show how the point spread is supposed to go.
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LeonOnirac  





Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OMG
MATH!!

my worst subject...
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Chillaxtian  





Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 207
Location: Waco, TX

PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, if someone doesn't submit a score for a song, hence a 0, they will not count in the formula, not get any points, and everyone else will get slightly more points, correct?
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CloudFuel  





Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 1030
Location: Houston, TX

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woah.... crazy mad math skills, nice.

Some guy earlier mentioned something about just starting the score at like 50-100 and dropping just one single solitary point for every placement below that. If this were the case, you could have some insane "competition" and flip flopping in the leader board. Ideally you want your top scorers to be at not only the top of the points, but they also deserve some cushion from the other players (they've earned it).

I think I might have done it a bit differently (mostly because I'm great with spreadsheets and not so great at math) to where I bracket the players into 3 tiers (top scorers, middle of the road, bottom scorers) and while points would be virtually fluent from top to bottom, you would see noticeable gaps between those three tiers, causing some plateaus to occur.

That said, you guys rock.. and I fully believe in whatever system ya'll put together... so rock on. ;)
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Buddabing  





Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The old point system sucked because of the fact that many people drop out over the course of the league, so if someone didn't do well the first week they could never catch up.

This new system is great because the same number of points are possible for each song for each week regardless of if people drop out or not.
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fearless  





Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 116

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AHHHHH I HATE DOING MATH!!!!!! IM JUST GONNA POST MY SCORES THE WAY I DID BEFORE OR THE WAY THAT THE LEAGUE MODERATOR TELLS US TO
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thegibbonator  





Joined: 10 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barfo wrote:
schmegery wrote:
How exactly did you come up with this formula anyway? Random trial and error or other methods?

Well i mean i just took a league of 30 people in the old method and calculated up the scores and then normalized the x and y axes to get the red line. And so i knew right away that i wanted a polynomial function (just by inspection its obvious that thats whats going to fit it), and you need an x^1 term due ot the linear nature of the first 2/3rd of the old function, and i figured two higher order terms was enough to get the desired other behaviour so i drew up the basic form:

f(x) = Ax + Bx^y + Cx^z.

Right away its obvious that if you want f(1) = 1, then A + B + C = 1, and since the middle term is going to be smaller, i just wrote it as:

f(x) = Ax + (1-A-B)x^y + Bx^z

then what i did was just plug in various values and plot them in excel in the chart like you see above until i got enough agreement. Obviously i started by getting the linear part ot match up, you want A to be only slightly less than the slope of the linear part (since near 0 the funciton behaviour is obviously dominated by the first order term), and also concomitant with this its obvious y and z need to be at least a few integers above 1 to get a decent match in the linear secton. THen i tried to fit the third term in order to get a decnt fit to the behaviour near 1, using B= 1-A with the A form before. i tried basiclaly z=5 thru 8 and 7 looked the best, with a whole family of z=7 you can fit both ends of the line, with varying levels of off in the middle. Obviously hte last step was to take y= a middle value between 1 and z, in order to bring up the middle part of the equation. once i setlted on y and z, i just played around with it a lot to get the match i liked the best. There are porbably even better matches if i had bothered to do like a linear regression fit, but the end result was prety damn good and probably within 10% variance from whatever the eventual best fit woul dbe so i just settled at doing it the sloppy, imprecise way.


Erm.... cheese?

*sits there staring at Barfo*
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GeneStarwind  





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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see why people are so concerned with understanding the new system. All anyone needs to know is good playing=good score.
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edub004  





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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barfo that was some awesome trial and error. But you were right there would definitely have been a quicker way of doing it not necessarily easier but quicker. However having said that it works for what we need it for and nice work.
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ViPeR6  





Joined: 03 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barfo, what do you do for a living that you can figure out all these things?
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Thurman91  





Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Explaning the New League Points System (S6 and on) Reply with quote

Barfo wrote:
Hey just thought id drop this little post in so that people arent confused when they see the new points system.


i thought i would understand better until he started using math, and just like LeonOnirac, its my worst subject.

whatever it does, it seems to work so congrats Barfo.
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xXnapalm69Xx  





Joined: 22 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DAM your smart, thanks for telling us it is less confusing.
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googleimage  





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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a nutshell, your points are kind of like a percentile, but not quite. It's skewed so that the bottom majority will be clumped together, but it discriminates the best of the best a little bit better (i.e. the top-tier scores will be more separated).
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