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Explaning the New League Points System (S6 and on)
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Evers17  





Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats very interesting, thanks for the info and giving the formula also.

I = Math Nut
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ShinobiAC  





Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 1065
Location: Raleigh, NC

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems to me that a grading system based on score would be more fair than one based on placement.

You could have somebody blow away the competition in 3 songs, getting 20k over their nearest opponent, then get 2000 points less than the leader on the last song and end up losing? Doesn't make much sense to me...

Obviously points aren't a 1 to 1 mapping on each song. The solution is to have an exponential score mapping where 100 points would be the theoretical maximums for the songs (and still allow for scaling higher if somebody manages to squeeze more). All you would have to do is get the formula created and plug in the number you want to set as the max for that song and difficulty. I believe the effort required to set up a new GUI or modify what you have currently set up for inputting songs would be worth the trouble to make it a much fairer system.

I am borrowing this idea from the way scoring is done in decathlons. I think it's probably the closest comparison to what is being done in the leagues.
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moose526  





Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i like this one more
it works better
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rafsta93  





Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 250
Location: Manchester UK

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i still dont really get it...... im sorry can sum1 plz put this in simpletr words
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yudlugar  





Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 356

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rafsta93 wrote:
i still dont really get it...... im sorry can sum1 plz put this in simpletr words


The scoring system in the original post is, rank everyone in order according to scores from 1 to say 50. (50 being best, 1 worst)

Then multiply each position by a number, determined by the formula given. As the position goes up, the difference between the numbers increases.
A simplified example, 4 person tournament
last place = 1x1 = 1
3rd place = 2x2 = 4
2nd place = 3x4 = 12
1st place = 4x8 = 32
(I've simply doubled the multiplier for each improvement in rank, the actualy system used is more complex, but that should give you the general idea)


This means the people at the top of the league have a larger gap between the points gained than those at the bottom.

The scoring system suggested a few posts up is similar, but rather than multiplying the position by a number multiply the score divided by max score by a number to get the points.
For example, if the most points possible in a song is 100, then the points would be awarded:
4th place, 25 point, 1/4 x 40 = 10
3rd place,50 points, 1/2 x 50 = 25
2nd place 75 points, 3/4 x 70 = 52.5
1st place 100 points 1 x 100 = 100



Personally I feel giving points by rank is best, with the points based system songs with more points will give a greater deviation and therefore easier to make-up/extend a lead. Most of the songs with big scores are harder ones, so it makes the leagues biased towards players who do better at the harder songs and being able to squeeze and optimise lower songs becomes pretty much pointless, as you can just get within a few thousand points of the leader and concentrate on getting big scores in the other songs.
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rafsta93  





Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 250
Location: Manchester UK

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ah thx. I thought i was quite good at maths. Obviously not but that really helps. This is my first league i have entered because i now feel up to the standard. Ill go back to the original post and try to understand it........ again..... to see how it really works.
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K81o7  





Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 446

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice work, Barfo! However, is there some way to empirically calculate derivatives of that curve you're trying to approximate? If so, a not too complicated Taylor polynomial could get reaaaallly close.

Not that what you have here isn't close enough though. Nice job.
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zztwig12  





Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

confusing, but pretty cool
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GuitarGeek08  





Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 3213

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so the formula would look something like this (simplified and easier to understand)?

F(x)= 62.5 * (x+7.5) * (x^4 +30) * x^7
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CaesarsSalad  





Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Barfo:

I didn't read the whole thread, but why didn't you just use an exponential function, like y=(2^x)-1 instead of your polynomial? First player would get 1 point multiplied with whatever you see fit, the last would get zilch (if there are infinite participants) or close to nothing and the tangent for x=0 would be ln(2), which seems alright.
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MindControlFun  





Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 78
Location: The 'burbs.

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this may be a really stupid question, and if it was answered already somewhere else I'm sorry:

Why don't you just take an average of the scores and turn them all into a percent of the best? That way it would be normed, and wayyy simpler.

Example:

Say we have someone who got:
-126938, 340498, 213462, 116104
-111873, 326938, 212678, 113103
-109004, 299328, 190473, 100024

First place would be (126938+340498+213462+116104)/4 = 199250.5
2nd: (111873+326938+212678+113103)/4 = 191148
3rd: (109004+299328+190473+100024)/4 = 174707.25

The points would be distributed as so:
1st: 100 (or 1, whichever)
2nd: 95.93 (or .9593)
3rd: 87.68 (or .8768)
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CaesarsSalad  





Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@mindcontrolfun:
Because it is very hard to turn a near-optimum score into an optimum score, though the difference in points can be less than ten. Barfo wants to emphasize the difference at the very top.
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atruebassist  





Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 152

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure this has been asked before so I'm sorry. When will everything show up? (places, points [however you guys do it]) I heard 24 hrs. but then i also heard 48 hrs. Just wanted to clear it up.
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MindControlFun  





Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 78
Location: The 'burbs.

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@caesarsalad:

Thanks, I was wondering. I guess now that someone said so it makes sense. Wouldn't a logrithmic function be much easier than what he has now?
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CaesarsSalad  





Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@mindcontrolfun:
Logarithmical? I think you mean exponential. I already suggested that a few posts earlier and yeah, it would be easier...
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