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JosephL
Joined: 06 Sep 2007 Posts: 2698 Location: Charlottetown, PEI, Canada
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Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:43 am Post subject: |
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UndeadFil13QC wrote: | Example: Cliffs Of Dover. The 1st holds in the 60(?) BPM section have 0,25 beat cut from them. Then the holds in the 180+ BPM sections are shorter than they should be, because they also have 0,25 beat of a 60 BPM measure cut out, instead of 0,25 beat of a 180+ BPM measure. That makes you get less whammy power in the faster sections. Not sure if you get it, but I can't explain very well |
Maybe I'm understanding this imperfectly, but the amount of whammy power you get is dependent upon the number of beats for which you whammy it, and nothing else; the tempo of where these whammies occur is irrelevant. This is why you can whammy for a relatively short amount of time on a high BPM song (i.e. The Number of the Beast) and get Star Power quickly: because the length of a single beat is so much shorter. _________________
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HoorayItsMike
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Posts: 1604 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:50 am Post subject: |
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JosephL wrote: |
Maybe I'm understanding this imperfectly, but the amount of whammy power you get is dependent upon the number of beats for which you whammy it, and nothing else; the tempo of where these whammies occur is irrelevant. This is why you can whammy for a relatively short amount of time on a high BPM song (i.e. The Number of the Beast) and get Star Power quickly: because the length of a single beat is so much shorter. |
Yes, but this theory is more or less explaining that a 1 second hold at 50BPM is worth less than a 1 second hold at 100BPM if we're talking about Star Power. I'm not really sure if this needed to be added to the whammy formula because it really only just seems to add confusion. _________________
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JosephL
Joined: 06 Sep 2007 Posts: 2698 Location: Charlottetown, PEI, Canada
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Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:57 am Post subject: |
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HoorayItsMike wrote: | JosephL wrote: |
Maybe I'm understanding this imperfectly, but the amount of whammy power you get is dependent upon the number of beats for which you whammy it, and nothing else; the tempo of where these whammies occur is irrelevant. This is why you can whammy for a relatively short amount of time on a high BPM song (i.e. The Number of the Beast) and get Star Power quickly: because the length of a single beat is so much shorter. |
Yes, but this theory is more or less explaining that a 1 second hold at 50BPM is worth less than a 1 second hold at 100BPM if we're talking about Star Power. I'm not really sure if this needed to be added to the whammy formula because it really only just seems to add confusion. |
I don't think it needs to be added. We know that Star Power from whammies is based on the number of beats of the whammy, and differences in BPM would necessarily mean differences in Star Power as measured by time, but not by number of beats. _________________
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UndeadFil13QC
Joined: 12 Nov 2007 Posts: 3386 Location: Montreal, QC, Canada
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Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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JosephL wrote: | HoorayItsMike wrote: | JosephL wrote: |
Maybe I'm understanding this imperfectly, but the amount of whammy power you get is dependent upon the number of beats for which you whammy it, and nothing else; the tempo of where these whammies occur is irrelevant. This is why you can whammy for a relatively short amount of time on a high BPM song (i.e. The Number of the Beast) and get Star Power quickly: because the length of a single beat is so much shorter. |
Yes, but this theory is more or less explaining that a 1 second hold at 50BPM is worth less than a 1 second hold at 100BPM if we're talking about Star Power. I'm not really sure if this needed to be added to the whammy formula because it really only just seems to add confusion. |
I don't think it needs to be added. We know that Star Power from whammies is based on the number of beats of the whammy, and differences in BPM would necessarily mean differences in Star Power as measured by time, but not by number of beats. |
Try it yourself, try to get everything in Cliffs' 2nd to last activation, fail, and then tell me it has nothing to do with the whammy. _________________
ULTIMATE GOAL: FC Im The One on GH: Van Halen Expert Guitar
Solo 2A FC Count: 39 (Best runs: many -1s, three outro chokes and two 100% overstrums!)
Side goals: GH Expert Vocals Full Series FC [4/8] | Rock Band Expert Bass Full Series FC [8/9] | COVID Vaccine & Booster 100% FC [4/4]
47| 64| 30| 70| 41| 86| 49| 48| 85| 46| 93| 42 ( 10| 65| 10)
Full Series Total: 701/702 ( 786/787) |
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UndeadFil13QC
Joined: 12 Nov 2007 Posts: 3386 Location: Montreal, QC, Canada
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Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:33 am Post subject: |
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A little thing I found: the amount of whammy removed from every held note is 0,25 beat OF THE FIRST MEASURE OF THE SONG.
Well, I calculated the amount of whammy that there really is in Cliffs. It appears the 6th activation gives approx. 7,1189 beats of whammy instead of 8,82 (whew). So, the whammy gives only 7,35 extra beats of activation instead of 9,10 (as you can see in debr's path). That makes you lose 600 points from upperbound, even if you squeeze well.
It also appears that the 1st activation is easier than the path shows. Calculate it yourself: instead of cutting 0,25, cut [0,25] * [actual measure's BPM] / [1st measure's BPM] from EACH held note.
Dunno if this is understandable to you guys. _________________
ULTIMATE GOAL: FC Im The One on GH: Van Halen Expert Guitar
Solo 2A FC Count: 39 (Best runs: many -1s, three outro chokes and two 100% overstrums!)
Side goals: GH Expert Vocals Full Series FC [4/8] | Rock Band Expert Bass Full Series FC [8/9] | COVID Vaccine & Booster 100% FC [4/4]
47| 64| 30| 70| 41| 86| 49| 48| 85| 46| 93| 42 ( 10| 65| 10)
Full Series Total: 701/702 ( 786/787) |
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HoorayItsMike
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Posts: 1604 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:10 am Post subject: |
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UndeadFil13QC wrote: | A little thing I found: the amount of whammy removed from every held note is 0,25 beat OF THE FIRST MEASURE OF THE SONG.
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Whaaaaaaaaattt? If this is true, I don't believe this has been discovered before...which is strange. But awesome at the same time. Hopefully this can help explain all of the strange whammy situations in songs that we could never figure out. _________________
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zsjostrom35
Joined: 17 Feb 2008 Posts: 2130 Location: Columbus, Ohio
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Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:32 am Post subject: |
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HoorayItsMike wrote: | UndeadFil13QC wrote: | A little thing I found: the amount of whammy removed from every held note is 0,25 beat OF THE FIRST MEASURE OF THE SONG.
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Whaaaaaaaaattt? If this is true, I don't believe this has been discovered before...which is strange. But awesome at the same time. Hopefully this can help explain all of the strange whammy situations in songs that we could never figure out. |
Yeah, this would explain stuff like why Paint it Black's optimal first activation is a pretty big squeeze even though the path says it shouldn't be a squeeze at all. The first few measures of that song are slower than the rest, so relatively more whammy is removed from sustains later.
Seemingly above upper-bound squeezes on Cult of Personality? Check out the first measure; it's a good 6-10 BPM faster than the measures containing the phrases you need for the solo activation. Less whammy is removed; more notes under star power. _________________
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UndeadFil13QC
Joined: 12 Nov 2007 Posts: 3386 Location: Montreal, QC, Canada
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Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:18 am Post subject: |
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zsjostrom35 wrote: | HoorayItsMike wrote: | UndeadFil13QC wrote: | A little thing I found: the amount of whammy removed from every held note is 0,25 beat OF THE FIRST MEASURE OF THE SONG.
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Whaaaaaaaaattt? If this is true, I don't believe this has been discovered before...which is strange. But awesome at the same time. Hopefully this can help explain all of the strange whammy situations in songs that we could never figure out. |
Yeah, this would explain stuff like why Paint it Black's optimal first activation is a pretty big squeeze even though the path says it shouldn't be a squeeze at all. The first few measures of that song are slower than the rest, so relatively more whammy is removed from sustains later.
Seemingly above upper-bound squeezes on Cult of Personality? Check out the first measure; it's a good 6-10 BPM faster than the measures containing the phrases you need for the solo activation. Less whammy is removed; more notes under star power. |
Yeah, I personally think the optimal for this song is 369014.
EDIT: Also, the Arsonist starts with very fast BPM (312) then changes to 150. Thats why Lo7 has been able to squeeze so many extra notes. _________________
ULTIMATE GOAL: FC Im The One on GH: Van Halen Expert Guitar
Solo 2A FC Count: 39 (Best runs: many -1s, three outro chokes and two 100% overstrums!)
Side goals: GH Expert Vocals Full Series FC [4/8] | Rock Band Expert Bass Full Series FC [8/9] | COVID Vaccine & Booster 100% FC [4/4]
47| 64| 30| 70| 41| 86| 49| 48| 85| 46| 93| 42 ( 10| 65| 10)
Full Series Total: 701/702 ( 786/787) |
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LemonMeringue
Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Posts: 2048 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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Mad props to undead for this breakthough... it answers quite a few questions. It seems we're getting really close as a community to truly figuring out the GH3 system, thanks to all the crazy squeezers out there! Rest assured, i will always be here to leech on the fruits of your labor _________________
nanos gigantium humeris insidentes |
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Nikki
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 1235 Location: Anywhere but Brazil
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HoorayItsMike
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Posts: 1604 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:33 am Post subject: |
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Nikki wrote: | Quick question that has been bugging me for a while...on GH3, if there's a sustain in a SP section, and I hit this sustain late, will I lose SP since I wasn't whammying in the beginning? Or does it acts as points/ticks, it adds in the end as a 'burst'?
I end up hitting the note late when there are fast sustain sections because I focus on whammying and forget the notes =P
So I don't know if this is preventing me from getting more SP on whammy sections, like on Slow Ride (Expert) last activation, or if I just suck on whammying |
I'm almost positive that you WILL lose SP if you hit the note late no matter how immediately you start whammying. I'm about 99% sure on that. Another person's confirmation would help. _________________
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UndeadFil13QC
Joined: 12 Nov 2007 Posts: 3386 Location: Montreal, QC, Canada
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Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:54 am Post subject: |
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HoorayItsMike wrote: | Nikki wrote: | Quick question that has been bugging me for a while...on GH3, if there's a sustain in a SP section, and I hit this sustain late, will I lose SP since I wasn't whammying in the beginning? Or does it acts as points/ticks, it adds in the end as a 'burst'?
I end up hitting the note late when there are fast sustain sections because I focus on whammying and forget the notes =P
So I don't know if this is preventing me from getting more SP on whammy sections, like on Slow Ride (Expert) last activation, or if I just suck on whammying |
I'm almost positive that you WILL lose SP if you hit the note late no matter how immediately you start whammying. I'm about 99% sure on that. Another person's confirmation would help. |
Hmmm... not sure. I tried with the 3rd phrase in Paranoid, whammying the first chord perfectly, hitting the second chord late, and not playing the other chords, and I still got half of a bar (15,5 beats of whammy). Or maybe the whammy formula is wrong... _________________
ULTIMATE GOAL: FC Im The One on GH: Van Halen Expert Guitar
Solo 2A FC Count: 39 (Best runs: many -1s, three outro chokes and two 100% overstrums!)
Side goals: GH Expert Vocals Full Series FC [4/8] | Rock Band Expert Bass Full Series FC [8/9] | COVID Vaccine & Booster 100% FC [4/4]
47| 64| 30| 70| 41| 86| 49| 48| 85| 46| 93| 42 ( 10| 65| 10)
Full Series Total: 701/702 ( 786/787) |
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eddyf
Joined: 31 Dec 2007 Posts: 493 Location: Princeton, New Jersey
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Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:44 am Post subject: |
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Someone with the ability to play customs could test all this stuff very easily. Why not make a song where the first measure is something like 10BPM, then make the rest of the song 500BPM or other high values, with various sustains and SP phrases all over the place? If Undead is right, it would be obvious from playing such a chart. _________________
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mydgatemysox
Joined: 06 Jun 2008 Posts: 8
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Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:42 am Post subject: thanks |
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wow thank you that reaaaaly helped!!! |
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mydgatemysox
Joined: 06 Jun 2008 Posts: 8
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Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:45 am Post subject: wow undead |
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omg its so nice 2 c a tru gh player posting |
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