The Official Through the Fire and Flames Thread

[Barbaloot]

Lately the Technique, Style, and Gameplay forum has been cluttered with TTFAF threads, many of which ask the same questions. From now on, in order to reduce this clutter, please keep help discussion of TTFAF expert in this thread (or a thread of substance already in existence), and please make sure you are not asking something that has already been answered. If you have to ask a question, be specific. State what exactly is giving you trouble, how you are trying to hit a certain section, etc. Do not make a post like "I'm having trouble 4*ing this song, what am I doing wrong??"

Here are the most commonly asked questions:

1. How do I unlock Through the Fire and Flames?
Once you beat Lou on any difficulty, Through the Fire and Flames will appear in the setlist as a bonus song. Alternately, you can use the "Unlock All Songs" cheat, which can be found here.

2. Am I ready to play TTFAF?
This is not a question you should expect others to answer for you. You know better than anyone else what your skills are. If you are not sure, play the song and find out. If you can't pass the intro and don't feel like learning it yet, you can still play the song in practice mode.

In general, players can usually 5* all but a few of the hardest songs on Expert before they pass TTFAF.

3. How do I hit the intro?
Though a few players prefer to fret the intro with one hand, almost everyone who plays for score two-hand taps it. Two-hand tapping is generally both easier on your hand physically and easier to get down consistently.



There are numerous ways of tapping the intro, all of which involve holding the green button down and quickly touching the other frets when they come. Most players use their left index finger to hold down green and use a combination of fingers on both hands to tap the other frets. Other players hold down green with their left hand and use one finger on their right hand to tap all the other frets. Some players even use their right hand to hold down the green button and tap with their left hand. Experiment in practice mode until you find a fingering which suits you. (Also, keep in mind that your tapping finger has to leave each fret before you push the next fret down; otherwise you will not hit the green note in between. This is one of the most common and frustrating ways players break their combo in this section.)

Finally, there is the issue of getting the tapping started. The two standard options are to strum and quickly bring your right hand over to tap, or to "elbow strum", which allows you to start with your right hand already in tapping position. Again, you will need to practice until you decide which method you prefer.

For various methods and techniques for tapping the intro, refer to Fugitive's thread, Through the Fire and Flames Intro: a comprehensive guide.

4. Can I use tape or a rubber band to hold the green fret down during the intro?
If you would like to do so in order to play the rest of the song outside of practice mode, then sure. However, this is considered cheating, so do NOT submit any scores to Scorehero for which you used tape or a rubber band to hold down a fret.

5. What is the "red snake" and how do I hit it?
The "red snake" is part of the star power phrase in So Far Away III which consists of a run of 32nd notes at 200 BPM:

===

At first it was commonly thought to be unhittable by human hands, but people gradually began to figure it out, and now it is usually not even considered the hardest part of the song anymore. Though a couple of players have hit it one-handed, the usual method for hitting it is to tap it. Here is a red snake tapping tutorial video by jnukes2.

Of course, it is by no means necessary to hit this section in order to get a good score. Most players looking to improve their score should probably put their effort into less difficult sections of the song.

6. How do I hit [insert certain part of song]?
Chances are, someone else has already asked this very same question. Use either the search function on this site or EWiggen's Scorehero search. Alternately, bdMoron has provided a compilation of past threads on TTFAF sections here.

If you cannot find any answers to your question, ask it in this thread, but again, be specific about the part(s) giving you trouble.

7. Is it possible to get a million points on TTFAF?
No. Regardless of how well you squeeze, a million points on this song on single player is not possible, period.

8. I saw a video of a TTFAF full combo on YouTube! Is it real?
No. About 47893 idiots on YouTube thought they were being original by stealing JefffN666's bot 100% video and claiming they got 100% on the song. Pay them no mind.
Edit: Iamchris4life FCed TTFAF at around 9:40PM PST, Tuesday, June 3, 2008. Pic here
Iamchris4life TTFAF FC video

9. What is a good star power path for TTFAF?
See the TTFAF Star Power discussion thread. Also, computer generated SP paths can be found on debr5836's SP website. However, keep in mind that a good star power path for you will depend on what parts of the song (including SP phrases) you can hit, so the best path for you will likely be different from the best path for someone else.

10. How do I pass TTFAF?
First and foremost, practice. Nothing anyone can tell you will help you more than simply sitting down and practicing the song.

The biggest obstacle to players trying to pass this song for the first time is the solo. In addition to the obvious (practice), be sure you can hit all the SP phrases during the solo. Keeping yourself alive throughout the solo often comes down to using star power at the right times to bring your rock meter up. You will usually activate star power twice during the solo: the first time during Herman's solo (either before or after the SP phrase there) and the second time during either What The?! or Twin Solo. You do not need to be able to keep long combos in the solo, but you do need to be able to survive 16th note runs without taking too big of a hit to your rock meter.

Once you survive the solo, there are still two small traps waiting: the red snake and You Rock (the ORBR tapping section at the end). Surviving the red snake shouldn't be too difficult since your rock meter should get a boost from the strumming section before. It is possible to slip up and fail here, but unless you completely bomb the hammers before the snake, you should be fine simply by holding down red and strumming, trying to hit the higher frets quickly as they come. (Another possible method is to anchor green, hit the reds, and ignore the higher notes.) As for You Rock, take it into practice mode and make sure you are comfortable with it. It is a very easy section to tap (anchor red, use your left hand to hit the B's and your right hand to hit the O's), so if you think you might be in danger of failing here, it may benefit you to go ahead and learn to tap it. (Remember, though, there's also the danger of failing if you can't get the tapping started.)

Finally, if it seems that you just cannot pass this song no matter what you do, you might not be at the skill level you need to be in order to pass it. Rather than playing TTFAF over and over and beating your head against a wall, go back and play some other songs. Five star some songs you haven't, bring up some other scores, get some full combos on easier songs. Your overall skill level will improve, and when you come back to TTFAF, it might not seem nearly as daunting as before.

11. How do I 5* TTFAF?
Again, practice is key here. However, in order to get the 5*, you will need to be able to keep combos in many sections throughout the song, and your star power path needs to coincide with what you can hit. By now you should be able to hold a combo for at least most of each of the following sections:
- They're Hammer Ons (the intro). If you don't combo at least up to the sweeps at the end of the intro, you should probably just restart.
- Post Insanity I + II
- Flying Free + So Far Away I
- Wings of a Dream + Lost Inside, Lost Within
- Synth Death, Grinding Scales I & II
- Herman's Solo II
- Rampaging Dragons
- You Rock

As for a star power path, there are some reasonable 5* paths posted in the TTFAF SP thread. Of course, it is important to be able to hit most of the SP phrases consistently. Also, you almost certainly want to have an activation in Grinding Scales II, as otherwise the SP phrase in Solo Fill I will either have to go toward Climactic Buildup (which isn't very dense) or the solo (where it is hard to keep a combo). Finally, it helps if you do not need SP to pass the solo, so the SP phrase in Twin Solo (and perhaps the one in Herman's Solo II as well) can be used later where you can hold a combo.

For a 5* run, you should have at least 315K points at the break going into Synth Death, and at least 475K coming out of the solo. (The 5* cutoff is 566,538.)

12. Why are you telling us how to pass and 5* TTFAF when you can't do either?
That's a stupid question.
_________________

LIBERTY

[Barbaloot]

Lately the Technique, Style, and Gameplay forum has been cluttered with TTFAF threads, many of which ask the same questions. From now on, in order to reduce this clutter, please keep help discussion of TTFAF expert in this thread (or a thread of substance already in existence), and please make sure you are not asking something that has already been answered. If you have to ask a question, be specific. State what exactly is giving you trouble, how you are trying to hit a certain section, etc. Do not make a post like "I'm having trouble 4*ing this song, what am I doing wrong??"

Here are the most commonly asked questions:

1. How do I unlock Through the Fire and Flames?
Once you beat Lou on any difficulty, Through the Fire and Flames will appear in the setlist as a bonus song. Alternately, you can use the "Unlock All Songs" cheat, which can be found here.

2. Am I ready to play TTFAF?
This is not a question you should expect others to answer for you. You know better than anyone else what your skills are. If you are not sure, play the song and find out. If you can't pass the intro and don't feel like learning it yet, you can still play the song in practice mode.

In general, players can usually 5* all but a few of the hardest songs on Expert before they pass TTFAF.

3. How do I hit the intro?
Though a few players prefer to fret the intro with one hand, almost everyone who plays for score two-hand taps it. Two-hand tapping is generally both easier on your hand physically and easier to get down consistently.



There are numerous ways of tapping the intro, all of which involve holding the green button down and quickly touching the other frets when they come. Most players use their left index finger to hold down green and use a combination of fingers on both hands to tap the other frets. Other players hold down green with their left hand and use one finger on their right hand to tap all the other frets. Some players even use their right hand to hold down the green button and tap with their left hand. Experiment in practice mode until you find a fingering which suits you. (Also, keep in mind that your tapping finger has to leave each fret before you push the next fret down; otherwise you will not hit the green note in between. This is one of the most common and frustrating ways players break their combo in this section.)

Finally, there is the issue of getting the tapping started. The two standard options are to strum and quickly bring your right hand over to tap, or to "elbow strum", which allows you to start with your right hand already in tapping position. Again, you will need to practice until you decide which method you prefer.

For various methods and techniques for tapping the intro, refer to Fugitive's thread, Through the Fire and Flames Intro: a comprehensive guide.

4. Can I use tape or a rubber band to hold the green fret down during the intro?
If you would like to do so in order to play the rest of the song outside of practice mode, then sure. However, this is considered cheating, so do NOT submit any scores to Scorehero for which you used tape or a rubber band to hold down a fret.

5. What is the "red snake" and how do I hit it?
The "red snake" is part of the star power phrase in So Far Away III which consists of a run of 32nd notes at 200 BPM:

===

At first it was commonly thought to be unhittable by human hands, but people gradually began to figure it out, and now it is usually not even considered the hardest part of the song anymore. Though a couple of players have hit it one-handed, the usual method for hitting it is to tap it. Here is a red snake tapping tutorial video by jnukes2.

Of course, it is by no means necessary to hit this section in order to get a good score. Most players looking to improve their score should probably put their effort into less difficult sections of the song.

6. How do I hit [insert certain part of song]?
Chances are, someone else has already asked this very same question. Use either the search function on this site or EWiggen's Scorehero search. Alternately, bdMoron has provided a compilation of past threads on TTFAF sections here.

If you cannot find any answers to your question, ask it in this thread, but again, be specific about the part(s) giving you trouble.

7. Is it possible to get a million points on TTFAF?
No. Regardless of how well you squeeze, a million points on this song on single player is not possible, period.

8. I saw a video of a TTFAF full combo on YouTube! Is it real?
No. About 47893 idiots on YouTube thought they were being original by stealing JefffN666's bot 100% video and claiming they got 100% on the song. Pay them no mind.
Edit: Iamchris4life FCed TTFAF at around 9:40PM PST, Tuesday, June 3, 2008. Pic here
Iamchris4life TTFAF FC video

9. What is a good star power path for TTFAF?
See the TTFAF Star Power discussion thread. Also, computer generated SP paths can be found on debr5836's SP website. However, keep in mind that a good star power path for you will depend on what parts of the song (including SP phrases) you can hit, so the best path for you will likely be different from the best path for someone else.

10. How do I pass TTFAF?
First and foremost, practice. Nothing anyone can tell you will help you more than simply sitting down and practicing the song.

The biggest obstacle to players trying to pass this song for the first time is the solo. In addition to the obvious (practice), be sure you can hit all the SP phrases during the solo. Keeping yourself alive throughout the solo often comes down to using star power at the right times to bring your rock meter up. You will usually activate star power twice during the solo: the first time during Herman's solo (either before or after the SP phrase there) and the second time during either What The?! or Twin Solo. You do not need to be able to keep long combos in the solo, but you do need to be able to survive 16th note runs without taking too big of a hit to your rock meter.

Once you survive the solo, there are still two small traps waiting: the red snake and You Rock (the ORBR tapping section at the end). Surviving the red snake shouldn't be too difficult since your rock meter should get a boost from the strumming section before. It is possible to slip up and fail here, but unless you completely bomb the hammers before the snake, you should be fine simply by holding down red and strumming, trying to hit the higher frets quickly as they come. (Another possible method is to anchor green, hit the reds, and ignore the higher notes.) As for You Rock, take it into practice mode and make sure you are comfortable with it. It is a very easy section to tap (anchor red, use your left hand to hit the B's and your right hand to hit the O's), so if you think you might be in danger of failing here, it may benefit you to go ahead and learn to tap it. (Remember, though, there's also the danger of failing if you can't get the tapping started.)

Finally, if it seems that you just cannot pass this song no matter what you do, you might not be at the skill level you need to be in order to pass it. Rather than playing TTFAF over and over and beating your head against a wall, go back and play some other songs. Five star some songs you haven't, bring up some other scores, get some full combos on easier songs. Your overall skill level will improve, and when you come back to TTFAF, it might not seem nearly as daunting as before.

11. How do I 5* TTFAF?
Again, practice is key here. However, in order to get the 5*, you will need to be able to keep combos in many sections throughout the song, and your star power path needs to coincide with what you can hit. By now you should be able to hold a combo for at least most of each of the following sections:
- They're Hammer Ons (the intro). If you don't combo at least up to the sweeps at the end of the intro, you should probably just restart.
- Post Insanity I + II
- Flying Free + So Far Away I
- Wings of a Dream + Lost Inside, Lost Within
- Synth Death, Grinding Scales I & II
- Herman's Solo II
- Rampaging Dragons
- You Rock

As for a star power path, there are some reasonable 5* paths posted in the TTFAF SP thread. Of course, it is important to be able to hit most of the SP phrases consistently. Also, you almost certainly want to have an activation in Grinding Scales II, as otherwise the SP phrase in Solo Fill I will either have to go toward Climactic Buildup (which isn't very dense) or the solo (where it is hard to keep a combo). Finally, it helps if you do not need SP to pass the solo, so the SP phrase in Twin Solo (and perhaps the one in Herman's Solo II as well) can be used later where you can hold a combo.

For a 5* run, you should have at least 315K points at the break going into Synth Death, and at least 475K coming out of the solo. (The 5* cutoff is 566,538.)

12. Why are you telling us how to pass and 5* TTFAF when you can't do either?
That's a stupid question.
_________________

LIBERTY

[Yewb]

Nice, I'd been waiting on this for awhile :P

Can I just ask - is it considered cheating to play the intro on Dualshock before switching to the guitar controller? I'm not sure, since it's not cheating to play the whole song on Dualshock, and you're not technically using any external influences (tape, etc), yet the intro is extremely easy on DS.
_________________

expertwin wrote:

ShadoWolf wrote: expertwin wrote: I just want to, you know, get my name out there. BTW, it updates every Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Was just the first two, decided to do Saturdays as well. Serious advice now: No-one likes indecision in their work, so find what you like that you're even remotely good at, and stick with it. Don't flit from one thing to another, because that just smacks of a large lack of determination and drive. And people don't like you for that, and won't remember you for it. I mean, I get that you have a plucky spirit and a willingness to try new things, but there's a limit, man. I might knock it down to just Thursday and Friday.

JOE2210 wrote:

Leave me alone, I have been drinking and your made up words mean nothing to me.

[Yewb]

Nice, I'd been waiting on this for awhile :P

Can I just ask - is it considered cheating to play the intro on Dualshock before switching to the guitar controller? I'm not sure, since it's not cheating to play the whole song on Dualshock, and you're not technically using any external influences (tape, etc), yet the intro is extremely easy on DS.
_________________

expertwin wrote:

ShadoWolf wrote: expertwin wrote: I just want to, you know, get my name out there. BTW, it updates every Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Was just the first two, decided to do Saturdays as well. Serious advice now: No-one likes indecision in their work, so find what you like that you're even remotely good at, and stick with it. Don't flit from one thing to another, because that just smacks of a large lack of determination and drive. And people don't like you for that, and won't remember you for it. I mean, I get that you have a plucky spirit and a willingness to try new things, but there's a limit, man. I might knock it down to just Thursday and Friday.

JOE2210 wrote:

Leave me alone, I have been drinking and your made up words mean nothing to me.

[Mac10Morph]

[Mac10Morph]

[DancingNinja]

[DancingNinja]

[DeusExProcella]

Great guide, just one thing to add:

13. The intro IS played on guitar in the studio version of the song. The band only uses a keyboard in live performances.

[DeusExProcella]

Great guide, just one thing to add:

13. The intro IS played on guitar in the studio version of the song. The band only uses a keyboard in live performances.

[Anaesthesia]

[Anaesthesia]

[IWillKickU]

This is a great guide and all, but when I saw it stickied, I thought it would be more like the RaBl sticky. bdmoron has been working on This guide to manage all of the TTFAF threads. It has a lot of different techniques for each section by a lot of different people. I was kind of disappointed to see that the new sticky wasn't his thread. No offense to you Barbaloot, this is a wonderful guide. It's just that there have been other guides like it before.

[IWillKickU]

This is a great guide and all, but when I saw it stickied, I thought it would be more like the RaBl sticky. bdmoron has been working on This guide to manage all of the TTFAF threads. It has a lot of different techniques for each section by a lot of different people. I was kind of disappointed to see that the new sticky wasn't his thread. No offense to you Barbaloot, this is a wonderful guide. It's just that there have been other guides like it before.

[Shashakiro]

[Shashakiro]

[Somasu]

Nice guide. I had to figure out a lot of this stuff on my own in order for me to finally 5* that song =P

To add another milestone, I think for a 5* run you should also probably have about 100K+ by the time you get to the "Cold Winter Morning" section (right in that break you get after the intro and Post Insanity). This could be wrong, but I find that when I don't have that much by that time< I rarely ever get the 5* unless I have some kind of kick-ass luck hitting things I normally don't.
_________________

My Accomplishments

[Somasu]

Nice guide. I had to figure out a lot of this stuff on my own in order for me to finally 5* that song =P

To add another milestone, I think for a 5* run you should also probably have about 100K+ by the time you get to the "Cold Winter Morning" section (right in that break you get after the intro and Post Insanity). This could be wrong, but I find that when I don't have that much by that time< I rarely ever get the 5* unless I have some kind of kick-ass luck hitting things I normally don't.
_________________

My Accomplishments

[broke455j00]

ok, i need some fingering help... i'm starting to get the hang of it and finally put up my first 700k+ run today, but I really want that 750k...

Really want to tap the end of Post Insanity 2, but always break combo moving my strum hand up... any hints for that one...

I've given up on learning bridge 1, that's not important...

On a good run now i'll have around 400k at the break...

Grinding scales easy, stuff after grinding scales easy...

Need major help with Herman and Sam's Solo.

I've never combo'd Herman, which is hudge as it's under SP in my path, and I don't even know where to start on Sam's.

Herman I think I can get w/ practice, but i have no clue how to finger anything is Sam's.

After that, fingering for all parts of twin solo would be nice.

Thanks

[broke455j00]

ok, i need some fingering help... i'm starting to get the hang of it and finally put up my first 700k+ run today, but I really want that 750k...

Really want to tap the end of Post Insanity 2, but always break combo moving my strum hand up... any hints for that one...

I've given up on learning bridge 1, that's not important...

On a good run now i'll have around 400k at the break...

Grinding scales easy, stuff after grinding scales easy...

Need major help with Herman and Sam's Solo.

I've never combo'd Herman, which is hudge as it's under SP in my path, and I don't even know where to start on Sam's.

Herman I think I can get w/ practice, but i have no clue how to finger anything is Sam's.

After that, fingering for all parts of twin solo would be nice.

Thanks

[Avarice13]

I need some advice here... I know what im doing wrong in the intro, im not letting my fingers off the non-green frets fast enough, is there any way to practice this? Ive been trying for hours and my record is 5% through the intro before i fail...
_________________

[] 5 star Through The Fire and Flames(477k current)
[] 5 star Devil Went Down To Georgia
[] 5 star GH:M
First GH:MX FC-Toxicity
Other game goals:
[] 1000 Halo 3 gamerscore (945/1000)

[Avarice13]

I need some advice here... I know what im doing wrong in the intro, im not letting my fingers off the non-green frets fast enough, is there any way to practice this? Ive been trying for hours and my record is 5% through the intro before i fail...
_________________

[] 5 star Through The Fire and Flames(477k current)
[] 5 star Devil Went Down To Georgia
[] 5 star GH:M
First GH:MX FC-Toxicity
Other game goals:
[] 1000 Halo 3 gamerscore (945/1000)

[Auriscope]

If I were to, say, get really bored and finish the guide I'm working on that covers all of TTFAF, would I have to post it in here? Or could I make it its own thread?
_________________

Play my hard songs.

Help people find missing charts with the Chart Recovery Movement

[Auriscope]

If I were to, say, get really bored and finish the guide I'm working on that covers all of TTFAF, would I have to post it in here? Or could I make it its own thread?
_________________

Play my hard songs.

Help people find missing charts with the Chart Recovery Movement

[Twestfall08]

Some of us, like me have trouble Elbow Strumming that first red. I have developed a technique that allows me to start the tapping proccess fairly easily. My only trouble is keeping the rythm once im tapping.


2 1 3 1 4 1 2 1 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1



3 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 3 1 1 1 3 1 2 1 3 1




1 1 2 1 3 1 1 1 1

My tapping method involves hitting that first blue with your pinky, and then tap the remaining blue and orange notes with your index finger on your strumming hand. I normal strum the first red note. Instead of hitting all the orange notes with your index finger, you can easily use your middle finger instead. This is the way i learned to tap and what works best for me.

I also have a method for passing the intro one handed. It took me about 20 minutes of practice to be able to pass it consistantly. What I do is hold the greens with my index. I alt strum to the rythm of the green notes while i hit the red notes with my middle finger, yellow notes with my ring finger and blue notes with my pinky. I disregard the orange notes compeletly. Some attempts I come out of the intro in red, other times in green. Depends on how consistant you are. Do not give up if you suddenly in flashing red. You can very easily still survive if you can get in rythm. You never get a x3 multiplier, but getting x2 Multiplier many times is very possible. This method is only if you want to pass the intro, if you want to get a higher score you most likely will want to learn to tap.
_________________

Goals:

[] 5* Whole Setlist (NotB and One)
[] 4* TTFAF
[] 4* Dragonforce Track Pack (HooT and RD left)
[x] not suck (up for debate)

[Twestfall08]

Some of us, like me have trouble Elbow Strumming that first red. I have developed a technique that allows me to start the tapping proccess fairly easily. My only trouble is keeping the rythm once im tapping.


2 1 3 1 4 1 2 1 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1



3 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 3 1 1 1 3 1 2 1 3 1




1 1 2 1 3 1 1 1 1

My tapping method involves hitting that first blue with your pinky, and then tap the remaining blue and orange notes with your index finger on your strumming hand. I normal strum the first red note. Instead of hitting all the orange notes with your index finger, you can easily use your middle finger instead. This is the way i learned to tap and what works best for me.

I also have a method for passing the intro one handed. It took me about 20 minutes of practice to be able to pass it consistantly. What I do is hold the greens with my index. I alt strum to the rythm of the green notes while i hit the red notes with my middle finger, yellow notes with my ring finger and blue notes with my pinky. I disregard the orange notes compeletly. Some attempts I come out of the intro in red, other times in green. Depends on how consistant you are. Do not give up if you suddenly in flashing red. You can very easily still survive if you can get in rythm. You never get a x3 multiplier, but getting x2 Multiplier many times is very possible. This method is only if you want to pass the intro, if you want to get a higher score you most likely will want to learn to tap.
_________________

Goals:

[] 5* Whole Setlist (NotB and One)
[] 4* TTFAF
[] 4* Dragonforce Track Pack (HooT and RD left)
[x] not suck (up for debate)

[Elmand]

Hi people, first time ive been posting on the forum but browsed a lot.

Ok, I have beaten every single song on expert (Including DWDTG), apart from TTFAF. I have been trying to beat the intro for ages but ive never got further than 4%. I've tried tapping 2handed, 1 handed, done the rubber band trick, flipped my hand over, tried doing it with a friend, tried flailing it. None of it has worked. I'd like to know if anyone has a technique I can use to (Preferably FC) or pass the intro, please let me know.

[Elmand]

Hi people, first time ive been posting on the forum but browsed a lot.

Ok, I have beaten every single song on expert (Including DWDTG), apart from TTFAF. I have been trying to beat the intro for ages but ive never got further than 4%. I've tried tapping 2handed, 1 handed, done the rubber band trick, flipped my hand over, tried doing it with a friend, tried flailing it. None of it has worked. I'd like to know if anyone has a technique I can use to (Preferably FC) or pass the intro, please let me know.

[Shotgunmerc]

[Shotgunmerc]