ScoreHero
Home | Forum | Wiki
Inbox [ Login ]Inbox [ Login ]
SearchSearch MemberlistMemberlist
ProfileProfile Log inLog in
Leagues suggestions
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ScoreHero Forum Index -> Leagues
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Deimos  
 




Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 1344
Location: Calgary, AB

PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:13 pm    Post subject: Leagues suggestions Reply with quote

Please use this thread to make suggestions for the league "planning committee" (as described in this thread) to discuss. This can be anything from types of leagues you enjoyed or that you would like to see, to rule changes or new types of twists. Just about anything is going to be open to consideration, so let us know what you think. Thanks, I'm looking forward to seeing your ideas.
_________________
Sturgeon was an optimist.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message XBL Gamertag: Deimorz
TheDave  
 




Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 636
Location: The OC

PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My only suggestion is the same from last season.

Being a low difficulty player (trying to improve!) see sig

I would only suggest that the scoring scale NOT start at 0 for people who enter in scores.

For instance, Some songs I (along with others) just could not even pass, and would only get a failed % complete to enter into the system.

I would certainly get better at the harder ones as the week went on, but I just couldn't pass some of them.
And then one week I DID pass a very difficult song after many many many tries. I put in my score, and I ended up only getting (about) 1 whole league point more then the next person, who DIDN'T pass the song.
It sure wasn't very rewarding...

My suggestion is to start the minimum league points for a song at 10 (or even 7 or 5), this way there is at least a small reward for just passing the song.
As for the people who can't pass the song, and enter just a fail %, give them all 1-2 points for trying, and maybe +1 more point for the top % complete. But if someone does actually work all week to pass a song, and they do, those few extra league points they get for it would be nice

Also, this would also drop the less committed people down the ranks quicker if they miss a week of competition. And perhaps motivate them to keep active in the league.


In any case though Deimos,
The leagues sure were fun!
Thank you for all your hard work in running them!
I look forward to what you are able to come up with, and wish I had the time to help out!
_________________

Wha??? No Expert scores on SH? a few reasons on my wiki page

My Custom made WIRELESS X-Plorer!
My Custom Painted WIRELESS X-Plorer #2! YES, I really made two of them
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message XBL Gamertag: TheDave78
bt21milton  
 




Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 1385

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey the only thing I wanna see different is some GH: On Tour and GH:Aerosmith

Thanks for all the hard work!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sonicboom139  
 




Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 285
Location: St. Louis, MO

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think a league with four twists a week is a little too much, yet apparently one twist per week wasn't working out in normal leagues. Maybe try a league with two normal and two twist songs or something like that, because leagues just aren't as fun with twists. Like I said before, the twist league just seems to push it to the point where it's not fun anymore.
_________________


^^^^Click for Accomplishments^^^^
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message XBL Gamertag: sonicboom139
Brockbfball1563  
 




Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 3242
Location: Rochester, NH

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The biggest thing that I want back from way back when is the poll song. Have a list of maybe 8 songs to choose from and have each member add one point to two songs and subtrack one from another. We use to just pm the league commisioner our picks like below...

+1 Yes We Can
+1 Red Lottery
-1 Sweet Child O' Mine

...but with the new league interface we could probably update this and make it become an actual poll.

I'm really looking forward to next season!
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website XBL Gamertag: vVv Brock
sonicboom139  
 




Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 285
Location: St. Louis, MO

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just an idea, but it may not be going anywhere. What about a poll on which twist to do the next week, such as
Slow Ride:
Keyboard [ ]
Mirror Mode [ ]
< 50 NS [ ]
< 3 SP phrases [ ]
Etc.

Again, just a crazy idea
_________________


^^^^Click for Accomplishments^^^^
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message XBL Gamertag: sonicboom139
DragoonKain  
 




Joined: 11 Jul 2007
Posts: 942
Location: Dallas, TX

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would suggest doing the same thing as last time, where you have a trial week for people to sign up and the league commishes to gauge support for specific leagues, and then you narrow the leagues down based on total sign-ups. I hope 80sH or GH1H makes it this time >.<.
_________________

53964.png
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail XBL Gamertag: DragoonKain07
IWillKickU  
 




Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 2830
Location: In the Undertow

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DragoonKain wrote:
I would suggest doing the same thing as last time, where you have a trial week for people to sign up and the league commishes to gauge support for specific leagues, and then you narrow the leagues down based on total sign-ups. I hope 80sH or GH1H makes it this time >.<.


^^This. I was floored by the amount of leagues that ran last season. I think that gauging interest before they began was a brilliant idea. Some other things that I really liked about last season, other than the sheer veriety were:

A) The option to choose a twist or non-twist league. Personally, I have no interest at all in twists. I would be pissed if someone beat me out for a playoff spot because they were better at playing with their toes. But for people who aren't as interested in all out score-wars, I can see where the veriety would make things fun.

B) The implementation of Team Leagues. Especially now that we have Rock Band, and now that GH4 and RB2 are coming, I think its more important than ever to get the multiplayer aspects seemlessly into the leagues. The fact that it was included last season was wonderful, but with more 4 player games coming and more games depending on co-op strategies for higher scores, this is getting more important. I would like to see all of the glitches get rubbed out so Team Leagues can move to the forefront of the competition.

Recommendations:

A) Reduce the songs/week or max leagues. I was responsible when the season started, and only signed up for 2 leagues, but many people went for the maximum, 3 solo + 1 team. Some people were actually able to maintain this rediculous amount of time required, but a lot of people overstretched themselves and ended up dropping out of 1 or more leagues, or just playing them really half-assed. I was in the GH80s league, and by the time playoffs came round, all but the elites had lost interest, and the league got boring. I tried to keep things going, but we went from about 45 active players to about 10. I think this could have been prevented by limiting the songs/week. If someone was signed up for three leagues, they would only have to master 9 songs a week rather than 12. I think that would make people less likely to abandon their leagues. The other option would be to only allow people to join 2 leagues, but that doesn't sound nearly as effective. With as many leagues as were (will be?) available, asking people to pick only 2 seems unrealistic.

B) Give partial score for failed songs. This goes along with what TheDave said earlier. If a song like Jordan or TTFAF comes up, a lot of people, especially in the lower divisions, are not going to pass. I saw a rivalry, where rather than getting 0 points for a failed song, you got 1,000 X %complete, so if you failed Jordan at 59% (something I am more than familiar with) you would recieve 59,000 points. This isn't enough to compete for a top spot, but if you kick ass at the other songs that week, it could make the difference between missing or making the playoffs. I also think this would help remedy the problem that TheDave brought up. If he passed Jordan with the lowest score in the division at 150,000 and 5 other people in the division failed at 59%, 59%, 56%, 44%, and 38%. They would have earned 59,000; 59,000; 56,000; 44,000; and 38;000 respectively. They still get some score credit oversomeone who didn't even submit a percent failed score, and TheDave gets a huge advantage over them, even though he barely passed (150,000 v. 59,000). I think applying artificial scores like this could make things a lot better for the lower division players.

C) Do not make team leagues open difficulty I didn't participate in team leagues, or keep an eye on any of their leaderboards, but it seems to me like someone playing on Hard and getting an FC could have an advantage over someone playing on Expert. I know that the point of open difficulty was to cut down on the amount of leagues created, but I fail to see the effectiveness of open difficulty. Example: Team1 is made up of Player1 (Xguitar) and Player2 (Xdrums). They find that if they play Won't get Fooled Again that Player1 uses most of his overdrive saving Player2, because that song is effing hard. Where if Player2 drops down to Hard, their score goes up drastically because they can use overdrive simultaniously for a 4x multiplier. Team2 (Player3 - Xguitar / Player4 Xdrums) is slightly better than Team1, but Player4 stays on Xdrums because he doesn't need quite as many bailouts as Player2. They are far from an FC, but get a respectable score. Team1 wins because Player2 kicked ass on the much easier Hdrums, even though Team2 deserved the win. Again, I didn't really watch the co-op leagues, so this may not have been a problem in practice, but it could really fuck things up in theory. I would do away with the open difficulty all together.

Those are just some initial thoughts, I may post more later.
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message Send e-mail XBL Gamertag: IWi11KickU
Brockbfball1563  
 




Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 3242
Location: Rochester, NH

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IWillKickU wrote:
Do not make team leagues open difficulty I didn't participate in team leagues, or keep an eye on any of their leaderboards, but it seems to me like someone playing on Hard and getting an FC could have an advantage over someone playing on Expert. I know that the point of open difficulty was to cut down on the amount of leagues created, but I fail to see the effectiveness of open difficulty. Example: Team1 is made up of Player1 (Xguitar) and Player2 (Xdrums). They find that if they play Won't get Fooled Again that Player1 uses most of his overdrive saving Player2, because that song is effing hard. Where if Player2 drops down to Hard, their score goes up drastically because they can use overdrive simultaniously for a 4x multiplier. Team2 (Player3 - Xguitar / Player4 Xdrums) is slightly better than Team1, but Player4 stays on Xdrums because he doesn't need quite as many bailouts as Player2. They are far from an FC, but get a respectable score. Team1 wins because Player2 kicked ass on the much easier Hdrums, even though Team2 deserved the win. Again, I didn't really watch the co-op leagues, so this may not have been a problem in practice, but it could really fuck things up in theory. I would do away with the open difficulty all together.

A team can play on whatever level they want throughout the league. My team could play expert guitar and hard drums for one song and hard guitar and medium drums for another song. You don't have to play on the same level for every song, which is why open difficulty would be good.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website XBL Gamertag: vVv Brock
googleimage  
 




Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1229

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IWillKickU wrote:
B) Give partial score for failed songs. This goes along with what TheDave said earlier. If a song like Jordan or TTFAF comes up, a lot of people, especially in the lower divisions, are not going to pass. I saw a rivalry, where rather than getting 0 points for a failed song, you got 1,000 X %complete, so if you failed Jordan at 59% (something I am more than familiar with) you would recieve 59,000 points. This isn't enough to compete for a top spot, but if you kick ass at the other songs that week, it could make the difference between missing or making the playoffs. I also think this would help remedy the problem that TheDave brought up. If he passed Jordan with the lowest score in the division at 150,000 and 5 other people in the division failed at 59%, 59%, 56%, 44%, and 38%. They would have earned 59,000; 59,000; 56,000; 44,000; and 38;000 respectively. They still get some score credit oversomeone who didn't even submit a percent failed score, and TheDave gets a huge advantage over them, even though he barely passed (150,000 v. 59,000). I think applying artificial scores like this could make things a lot better for the lower division players.

I see where your concern on this matter lies, but it actually doesn't change anything - your score on the song has nothing to do with your overall score, and is completely determined by your rank. If the player below you has 150000, and the player above you has 200000, it won't matter if you have 155K or 195K - you'll still obtain the same points. Likewise for the % failed score - somebody who failed at 55% will have the same rank whether or not they're awarded 55K for that score. You ultimately need to separate those who passed the song from those who didn't - I'm not giving you 98K for failing Mississippi Queen at 98%.

I think the one potential concern is the matter of the player who has a beastly score but regularly fails - who is the better player, the one who fails with a score of 240K at 60%, or the player who fails with a score of 195K at 82%? I'm of the opinion that getting further through the song is the bigger accomplishment than the cleaner run through the mamby-pamby stuff, though.
_________________
Hey, Lindsay Lohan - "drink Canada Dry" is a slogan, not a dare!
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message PSN Name: googleimage
IWillKickU  
 




Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 2830
Location: In the Undertow

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brockbfball wrote:
A team can play on whatever level they want throughout the league. My team could play expert guitar and hard drums for one song and hard guitar and medium drums for another song. You don't have to play on the same level for every song, which is why open difficulty would be good.

I don't think you completely understood my post. I know that it is open difficulty now, I was saying why I thought we should do away with open difficulty. I could be totally wrong about this, selecting a lower difficulty might not actually translate into inflated scores, but I know it's a problem on GH in face-off mode, and I know that mulltiple difficulties in one band does SOMETHING to the overall score inflation. I don't know all of the game mechanics involved, but cutting open difficulty should prevent the possibility of score inflation. Like I said, I could be wrong about this, so if I am, please let me know why.

googleimage wrote:
I see where your concern on this matter lies, but it actually doesn't change anything - your score on the song has nothing to do with your overall score, and is completely determined by your rank. If the player below you has 150000, and the player above you has 200000, it won't matter if you have 155K or 195K - you'll still obtain the same points. Likewise for the % failed score - somebody who failed at 55% will have the same rank whether or not they're awarded 55K for that score. You ultimately need to separate those who passed the song from those who didn't - I'm not giving you 98K for failing Mississippi Queen at 98%.

I think the one potential concern is the matter of the player who has a beastly score but regularly fails - who is the better player, the one who fails with a score of 240K at 60%, or the player who fails with a score of 195K at 82%? I'm of the opinion that getting further through the song is the bigger accomplishment than the cleaner run through the mamby-pamby stuff, though.

I see. I didn't realize that scores were calculated solely on rank, I thought that they were calculated on a bell curve and distributed by rank. And for your example of failing Mississippi Queen at 98%, x1,000 was just an arbitrary number I chose that didn't sound too high. If there was a score awarded for failing, it would HAVE to be something that would come out below the lowest passing score. For your second example, if a player is better because he reaches 82%, he would recieve more points (82,000) to reflect that than a player who fails at 60% (60,000), so you and I are in agreement there. 195k failing at 82% beats 240k failing at 60%.
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message Send e-mail XBL Gamertag: IWi11KickU
PieGuy  
 




Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Posts: 2836
Location: Long Island, NY

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's some good suggestions here, but I want to comment on a couple.

Sonicboom139 wrote:
I think a league with four twists a week is a little too much, yet apparently one twist per week wasn't working out in normal leagues. Maybe try a league with two normal and two twist songs or something like that, because leagues just aren't as fun with twists. Like I said before, the twist league just seems to push it to the point where it's not fun anymore.
There never was a league with 4 twists per week. Last season's twist league had only 2 per week.

IWillKickU wrote:
B) Give partial score for failed songs... If there was a score awarded for failing, it would HAVE to be something that would come out below the lowest passing score.
This is already done. Look here at the round 4 results for the lowest GH2 Expert league last season. Those that failed Six still received points, just below the lowest passing score. Multiplying the failed percents by an arbitrary constant would achieve the same result.

IWillKickU wrote:
Do not make team leagues open difficulty I didn't participate in team leagues, or keep an eye on any of their leaderboards, but it seems to me like someone playing on Hard and getting an FC could have an advantage over someone playing on Expert. I know that the point of open difficulty was to cut down on the amount of leagues created, but I fail to see the effectiveness of open difficulty. Example: Team1 is made up of Player1 (Xguitar) and Player2 (Xdrums). They find that if they play Won't get Fooled Again that Player1 uses most of his overdrive saving Player2, because that song is effing hard. Where if Player2 drops down to Hard, their score goes up drastically because they can use overdrive simultaniously for a 4x multiplier. Team2 (Player3 - Xguitar / Player4 Xdrums) is slightly better than Team1, but Player4 stays on Xdrums because he doesn't need quite as many bailouts as Player2. They are far from an FC, but get a respectable score. Team1 wins because Player2 kicked ass on the much easier Hdrums, even though Team2 deserved the win. Again, I didn't really watch the co-op leagues, so this may not have been a problem in practice, but it could really fuck things up in theory. I would do away with the open difficulty all together.
One of the challenges with open difficulty is trying to find the best way to achieve the highest score. If there was a GH3 open difficulty league and TTFAF was chosen, I'd surely play it on Hard because I'd get a higher score for it. In your example, Player4 may be able to pass WGFA on Expert Drums, but if he can get a higher score by dropping to Hard, that's a decision he'll have to make in order to maximize his score.



Anywho, I wholeheartedly agree with bringing back polls, and since we do have such a shiny new interface I'm sure the poll could be integrated there along with the Enter Scores page as a couple of checkboxes.
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message
TheDave  
 




Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 636
Location: The OC

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PieGuy wrote:
IWillKickU wrote:
B) Give partial score for failed songs... If there was a score awarded for failing, it would HAVE to be something that would come out below the lowest passing score.
This is already done. Look here at the round 4 results for the lowest GH2 Expert league last season. Those that failed Six still received points, just below the lowest passing score. Multiplying the failed percents by an arbitrary constant would achieve the same result.


I agree that multiplying the failed % by an arbitrary # might not be great for the league scores.
That would probably require a complete re-work of the current league scoring system.
That is why I suggested starting the league points awarded for everyone that pases a song be jacked up a bit more than just starting the points scale at zero.

While the example you give is a decent one. It really isn't as effective since there were so few players in that league.

When a league has double (or more) the amount of players, you would see the people posting failing scores getting only 1 league point less than someone who passed the song.

So for instance, when I had posted a passing score for Free Bird last season, I was given my measly 3.04(?) league points.
Then to see the next score entered have no points. and just a %, which got 1.57(?) league points.
While it was certainly rewarding to me to have just beat the song, it kind of made the days worth of effort to accomplish that not really worth it.
My 1st failing % would have gotten me the exact same amount of league points.
I would have been better off spending my time improving my scores for the songs that I could pass to get more league points.

With what I was suggesting, having the lowest passing score start at say, 7 league points, and then the failing scores would all get 2 points just for submitting (maybe give the top fail % 3 league points).
This would make it worth the peoples effort to try an beat a difficult song.

This is why I was making the suggestion.
It would certainly also help keeping people motivated to enter scores. If everyone gets 7+ leagues points per song, skipping a week would drop you a little more quickly down the league rankings.
_________________

Wha??? No Expert scores on SH? a few reasons on my wiki page

My Custom made WIRELESS X-Plorer!
My Custom Painted WIRELESS X-Plorer #2! YES, I really made two of them
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message XBL Gamertag: TheDave78
sukergod  
 




Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 3437
Location: Newfoundland, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see some things that are fine and the suggestions I didnt like have been talked about so i will ignore them, but I really dont like the idea of doing only 3 songs per week as apposed to 4. I see where your point is but I dont think it will matter if its 3 or 4 songs a week, people will drop out at a constant rate despite the 1 less song a week.

My suggestion, dont give so many options. Last season was great. Everyone had an option to play in almost any league but because of it alot of people droped out or certain leagues didnt even start up. Now I understand that GH3 is going to have a league because its the main game right now (Aerosmith isnt, to many dont like it, im sorry to say), so obviously those league will stay, but instead of having an expert league for every other game, give the option of having one other expert league for one other game (either GH1, 80s, 2, Aero). I know it limits playing in the league you like but this way you choose one or the other (gh3 or other), and participants will most likely stay with that league instead of dropping out.

I can only say that limiting the options works because back in the earlier seasons where we had GH2 and thats it, we had alot of participation because there was no option, it was gh2 or nothing. So from that why not implement a schedule where instead of running lots of different leagues all the time, you have say a gh2 league run during a certain time of the year and only during that time. That way people know whats coming up and can be committed to it.

Generally I ave always been happy with the leagues. For me, season 3 in B league was the best just because we had so many of the now great Hard players who were relatively unknown at the time. We all lost our minds when we found out Hack beat NIN by 1 point in the semi's. Id like that feel back again. More members in each division instead of more divisions.
_________________
Carey_Price___5_Mai_by_devils80.jpg
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
googleimage  
 




Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1229

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IWillKickU wrote:
I see. I didn't realize that scores were calculated solely on rank, I thought that they were calculated on a bell curve and distributed by rank. And for your example of failing Mississippi Queen at 98%, x1,000 was just an arbitrary number I chose that didn't sound too high. If there was a score awarded for failing, it would HAVE to be something that would come out below the lowest passing score. For your second example, if a player is better because he reaches 82%, he would recieve more points (82,000) to reflect that than a player who fails at 60% (60,000), so you and I are in agreement there. 195k failing at 82% beats 240k failing at 60%.

Yeah - if you awarded, say, 100 points X completion percentage on all songs, then your suggestion would make sense, but it would ultimately be merely aesthetic.

And the points distribution is a little complicated - it's not exactly a bell curve. It's a polynomial scale that's dependent only on your rank and the number of participants. It's normalized such that the first-place player will always receive 100 points, and the last-place player will always receive 0 (which almost always is a tie between non-submissions). If 15 people submit a score on every song, then the 3rd place player will always receive the same number of points. But if there's a song where 20 players submit a score, then 3rd place yields a higher number of points than if there were 15 submissions.

The thread on the leagues forum that explains the score calculations gets into the actual number-crunching, and it explains the system perfectly.
_________________
Hey, Lindsay Lohan - "drink Canada Dry" is a slogan, not a dare!
Back to top
View user's profile Wiki User Page Send private message PSN Name: googleimage
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ScoreHero Forum Index -> Leagues All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 1 of 7

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Copyright © 2006-2018 ScoreHero, LLC
Terms of Use | Privacy Policy


Powered by phpBB