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googleimage  





Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1229

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eddaket wrote:
TheDave, the way you are suggesting is faulty in at least one respect.

By your method, getting 500k on Jordan would grant you the same amount of points as 500k on something like Freebird. That isn't fair at all. With the way it is now, it makes much more sense. You get 500k on Jordan and you are in first, while you get 500k on Freebird, you could be 20th. Different amount of points awarded for different songs. The point of leagues is to see how you do with the given competition, not necessarily the best scores.

Not exactly. Getting 500k isn't worth the same on the two songs under his system. I think what he's saying is that if 500K is tops on Jordan, then that would earn 100 points, and 280K would earn 56 points (since it is 56% of the top score). On Freebird, 500K is unlikely to be first amongst a league of players capable of getting 500K on Jordan, and so it wouldn't garner 100 points.

The problem with the system is that on, say, Mr. Fix It, that last-place player will likely score at least 90% of the top score, and earn 90 points. There's no opportunity to separate the field on a song like that.
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coolguy5678  





Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 125
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People who can't stick to doing 4 songs a week (like me) would appreciate a "relaxed" league with open difficulty and just 2 songs a week.

An idea that I had is a league where you only get to play each song a limited number of times (say, three times) and you have to submit the best score out of those three runs. That way, consistency is important and you don't have an advantage simply because you have more time on your hands and can play the song over and over to get the best score. This would probably push "the honour system" a bit too far, though.
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GuitarZero79  





Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 210
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coolguy5678 wrote:
An idea that I had is a league where you only get to play each song a limited number of times (say, three times) and you have to submit the best score out of those three runs. That way, consistency is important and you don't have an advantage simply because you have more time on your hands and can play the song over and over to get the best score. This would probably push "the honour system" a bit too far, though.


Actually, I was thinking of a league where you get to play each song only once. Maybe this league could have 5 songs a week since it would still take no time at all to participate. Although like you said, it would be tempting for many players to cheat. Still, I'm curious as to how many people would be interested in such a league. I think it could be fun for non-squeezers like myself who get their ass handed to them week after week on every song. Not everyone will FC even an easy song with the right SP on first try, right?
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GuitarZero79  





Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 210
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(EDIT)Very bad idea indeed(/EDIT)

Last edited by GuitarZero79 on Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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sukergod  





Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 3437
Location: Newfoundland, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GuitarZero79 wrote:
coolguy5678 wrote:
An idea that I had is a league where you only get to play each song a limited number of times (say, three times) and you have to submit the best score out of those three runs. That way, consistency is important and you don't have an advantage simply because you have more time on your hands and can play the song over and over to get the best score. This would probably push "the honour system" a bit too far, though.


Actually, I was thinking of a league where you get to play each song only once. Maybe this league could have 5 songs a week since it would still take no time at all to participate. Although like you said, it would be tempting for many players to cheat. Still, I'm curious as to how many people would be interested in such a league. I think it could be fun for non-squeezers like myself who get their ass handed to them week after week on every song. Not everyone will FC even an easy song with the right SP on first try, right?


Well Back in March (I believe) of 07 Azurac Held a March Madness type of tourny where we had 64 people (ranked by GH2 - Expert rankings) and each person had to play against whoever, a song exactly once. It worked out really well actually. You were allowed to practice the song as many times as you want but when it came to your official run, that was it.

I think alot of people really enjoyed it even if your first round match was against wulfe, lol.
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thecaptainof  





Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 7571
Location: ¯\(°_o)/¯

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GuitarZero79 wrote:
Sorry for the double-post but this has nothing to do with what was just discussed.

I was just wondering if anyone has thought about this yet... Wouldn't it be cool to run a year-long league? I know someone already suggested having a league on one game at a time and do a rotation between the games all year long, but how about taking this idea to the next level? Meaning, we could have some point system that adds up every league/tournament in order to have some kind of World Rankings.

For example, there could be 12 "leagues" per year, one per month, and instead of having playoffs at the end of each league, we'd have them in the 12th month with the brackets based on all-year results.

In order to keep things fair for people who have less time to participate, only the 8 best results (for example) of each player would count for the World Rankings.

Of course there would still be separate leagues for each difficulty and divisions based on skill level if there are enought entries.

I could elaborate on this for a long time, but first of all, anyone think this is a good idea? I would like to be involved if this ever gets done.


I really don't think this would be practical, for two reasons.

Firstly, it'd put a massive strain on the people running it - it'd basically be a commitment to run regular leagues every week for a year without a break and I don't think it'd be reasonable to expect that of anyone, however willing they may be at the start. Then, of course, this is just for one division - if, as you suggest, it gets split by difficulty and ability, it's a mind-bending amount of work for even the most efficient of teams to process.

Secondly, if we take the inevitable rate of attrition into account, each division would require 150-200 participants minimum at the start, maybe even more, to have any chance of some remaining at the end.

Nice idea, I'm sure it'd work like a charm in an ideal world where staffing is limitless and a steady level of participation without dropouts is guaranteed, but unfortunately I don't think this is that ideal world.
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GuitarZero79  





Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 210
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thecaptainof wrote:
GuitarZero79 wrote:
Sorry for the double-post but this has nothing to do with what was just discussed.

I was just wondering if anyone has thought about this yet... Wouldn't it be cool to run a year-long league? I know someone already suggested having a league on one game at a time and do a rotation between the games all year long, but how about taking this idea to the next level? Meaning, we could have some point system that adds up every league/tournament in order to have some kind of World Rankings.

For example, there could be 12 "leagues" per year, one per month, and instead of having playoffs at the end of each league, we'd have them in the 12th month with the brackets based on all-year results.

In order to keep things fair for people who have less time to participate, only the 8 best results (for example) of each player would count for the World Rankings.

Of course there would still be separate leagues for each difficulty and divisions based on skill level if there are enought entries.

I could elaborate on this for a long time, but first of all, anyone think this is a good idea? I would like to be involved if this ever gets done.


I really don't think this would be practical, for two reasons.

Firstly, it'd put a massive strain on the people running it - it'd basically be a commitment to run regular leagues every week for a year without a break and I don't think it'd be reasonable to expect that of anyone, however willing they may be at the start. Then, of course, this is just for one division - if, as you suggest, it gets split by difficulty and ability, it's a mind-bending amount of work for even the most efficient of teams to process.

Secondly, if we take the inevitable rate of attrition into account, each division would require 150-200 participants minimum at the start, maybe even more, to have any chance of some remaining at the end.

Nice idea, I'm sure it'd work like a charm in an ideal world where staffing is limitless and a steady level of participation without dropouts is guaranteed, but unfortunately I don't think this is that ideal world.


Yeah, I know it ain't such a good idea after all. I'll just shut my stupid self up next time.
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GuitarZero79  





Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 210
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(EDIT) This post isn't relevant anymore. I fixed the problem with my PM Inbox(/EDIT)

Sorry for bothering you everyone.
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DrSham  





Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 1233
Location: Hallett Cove, South Australia

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GuitarZero79 wrote:
Yeah, I know it ain't such a good idea after all. I'll just shut my stupid self up next time.


I wouldn't say that. The premise has some merit worthy of further discussion.

Maybe a tourney over x months may be the answer, whereby each qualification lasts maybe 8/12 songs over 2/3 weeks with sign up limited to x players. Each qualification round would be on a first come first served basis and the top 4? go into the finals. If 8 rounds were played that would give 32 players in a single elimination finals over 5 rounds to give a champion. If each player had a limit of 3 attempts to qualify then that would give everyone ample opportunity, avoiding the same people playing each round.

This is probably not anywhere near polished enough but as an idea it may have further mileage before it's implemented/discarded.
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thecaptainof  





Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 7571
Location: ¯\(°_o)/¯

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I wasn't trying to say it's a horrible idea or anything, just a bit impractical in that form. Nothing to say it couldn't be tweaked and refined into something workable.

I should probably return to this later - I'd be foolish to try debating any further right now, it's 8:15am and I haven't had coffee yet...
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DiscoV  





Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 535

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The suggestion Im about to throw out is terrible (I think it is), but it may catch a few sparks and turn into a great idea.

We all know how the NFL is run. There are 8 divisions, and each year the top 4 teams from their conference go on to the playoffs. Additionally, 2 teams with highest record from their whole conference recieve the wild card, and play in the playoffs as well.

Itd be interesting to see a divisional based league. Suppose we had 160 people sign up. There are 4 divisions (people are randomly put into these divisions), and 40 people are in each division. The season runs normally, 4 songs a week, results at the end of each week. At the end of the season though, the top 8 go to the playoffs, and it runs as a 32 seed bracket. What would make it more interesting is that you are unable to see other divisions rankings.

There are many problems with this. Division A may have 30 people score better than anyone in Division B. The players who are not as good as some of the Guitar Hero titans may not have a shot. Numerous other problems arise.

I just wanted to throw this out there so somebody could develop into a well oiled machine if they desired to.

And if this has already been suggested, my bad
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GuitarZero79  





Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 210
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DiscoV wrote:
The suggestion Im about to throw out is terrible (I think it is), but it may catch a few sparks and turn into a great idea.

We all know how the NFL is run. There are 8 divisions, and each year the top 4 teams from their conference go on to the playoffs. Additionally, 2 teams with highest record from their whole conference recieve the wild card, and play in the playoffs as well.

Itd be interesting to see a divisional based league. Suppose we had 160 people sign up. There are 4 divisions (people are randomly put into these divisions), and 40 people are in each division. The season runs normally, 4 songs a week, results at the end of each week. At the end of the season though, the top 8 go to the playoffs, and it runs as a 32 seed bracket. What would make it more interesting is that you are unable to see other divisions rankings.


I don't think that's too bad of an idea, actually. To avoid this:

DiscoV wrote:
Division A may have 30 people score better than anyone in Division B. The players who are not as good as some of the Guitar Hero titans may not have a shot.


The 16 or 32 best players, for example (determined either by SH rankings or one qualifier song) are split equally between divisions. In this example, 4 or 8 of them by division. this makes the divisions a bit more fair but there is still a random element, as the 1st-2nd-3rd-4th best could still be in the same division. But at least new players aren't looking at the possibility of having 10 or so of the very best players in their division.

Not necessarily with this type of league, but I also suggest having some leagues that last only 3 weeks but that have longer playoffs involving more players. Matched with the idea just discussed, there could be some division playoffs in week 4, where the 16 or even 32 best of the division have 1 or 2 matches to win in order to access the inter-division playoffs, taking place after week 4 as with other leagues. That would give decent-but-not-that-good players a chance to play a playoff match once in a while. IMHO, the possibility of a favorite being upset in the first round would make leagues even more interesting and harder to win for the best players.
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GuitarZero79  





Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 210
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thecaptainof wrote:
Yeah, I wasn't trying to say it's a horrible idea or anything, just a bit impractical in that form. Nothing to say it couldn't be tweaked and refined into something workable.

I should probably return to this later - I'd be foolish to try debating any further right now, it's 8:15am and I haven't had coffee yet...


Yeah, sorry if I seemed grouchy yesterday, I was having a really, really bad day, trust me.

Anyway, I actually re-thought the idea and came up with some desing involving the equivalent of 3 seasons of leagues per year, with other smaller events in between, which could be organized by players other than the regular league staff. That way no one would have to commit more time to it than they do now. I realise it's not something that would be easy to implement or that it would be a guaranteed success, but the idea is there and I do have a detailed system designed if anydoby's interested in looking at it.
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GuitarZero79  





Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 210
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It just seems that this thread has died now... I guess you're all discussing this on IRC now. Was I the only one who followed this thread and who is not part of the league discussion group or what!?

(This is not a complaint because I'm not part of the group, I didn't ask anyway. I'm not a "known" member and I don't have enough time anyway. I'm just wondering why there hasn't been any new post lately)
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massi4h  





Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 536
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps a WCG song choice tournament?

By focusing on Hard and using:

Official Songs

Miss Muder, AFI, 2006
Welcome to the jungle, Guns And Roses
Stricken , Disturbed
Knights of cydonia, Muse
Rock and roll all night, KISS
Bulls on parade, race against the machines
Anarchy in the UK, The Sex Pistols
Same old song and dance, Aerosmith


and hopefully any others that get put in the list.



Maybe a "pressure" tournament, where everyone has one shot per song and no restarts.
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