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Theories on Freestyle Sections? Help me update OP D:
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LemonMeringue  





Joined: 27 Nov 2007
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Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:51 am    Post subject: Theories on Freestyle Sections? Help me update OP D: Reply with quote

Is there anything you guys want me to put in here?


Just want to hear your thoughts, i have no idea how points/multiplier/percentage is calculated, but singing the guitar part SEEMS to generally give good points. Any input is welcome!


Freeforms for GHWT
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Last edited by LemonMeringue on Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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sentimentalgeek  





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the vast majority of them? Make steady, constant noise.

Loud humming works best for me. Someone else told me that rolling their tongue did wonders.
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HylianHero  





Joined: 22 Feb 2006
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Location: Santa Cruz, CA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, from what I've seen so far, it seems like freestyle sections are designed for you to get a maximum of zero points and everything on top of that is a bonus. I say that because it's possible to get above an average multiplier of 8.0x on No Sleep Till Brooklyn, which should mathematically be impossible. While you can basically be under OD for almost the entire song with the way vocals SP works, that would still put you around 7.8x ~ 7.9x, so something has to be adding to that...and since that song only has one "free SP" bit and two pretty long freestyle sections, I would imagine it's because of the latter.

EDIT: Read the OP wrong, so basically, all this post should say is noting that freestyle sections can raise your multiplier by a lot. Otherwise, just do what sentimentalgeek said.
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LemonMeringue  





Joined: 27 Nov 2007
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Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the freestyle sections are just looking for tonal sound? Also, what gives you points instead of raising your multiplier? Because different freestyle parts seem to give points very differently.
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HylianHero  





Joined: 22 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think after a certain point value, your multiplier increases as well. And, if I'm not mistaken, it looks like SP speeds up this process...of course, that was off of one run and on accident, so I could be wrong.
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manoftark  





Joined: 18 Feb 2007
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Location: Morehead, Kentucky

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please give me credit for the find?

It has nothing to do with point value. It has everything to do with how many pitches of a songs key you sing. This struck me when I achieved a 7x multiplier, because there are 7 notes in a scale. I tested it and all further evidence proves this to be true. I've also never achieved a higher freeform multiplier than 7, so if anyone can accomplish this then I'll be proven wrong.

Basic multipliers and SP also affect the freeform phrase, up to a maximum of 56(!!!!) times the base score of a phrase. This is the 7x freeform multiplier times the basic 4x, times 2x SP. The standard phrase has a base score of 500, which can be multiplied by a maximum of 8x for a total of 4,000. A freeform whose total point accumulation reaches 2,000 can multiply by 56 into 112,000 points. That's a SINGLE PHRASE. In full band, if all members use SP simultaneously, you get the bonus 4x band multiplier in addition as well. A freeform in full band worth 2,000 base under all maximum possible multipliers (224, by the way) will be 448,000. That's FUCKING NUTS.

It is this reason that vocals have become the point powerhouses. It's needless to say that it would be stupid not to save SP and for every band member to use it just as the freeform finishes. That's another thing: In GH:WT, SP either fully affects the phrase or doesn't touch it, depending on whether SP was running when the phrase finishes.

It does feel quite broken. As long as a band can help a vocalist achieve the 224 total multiplier, they can literally never hold a single multiplier themselves and achieve a band 5 star rating.

That's still not the half of it. I haven't played many vocals songs, but I imagine there are freeforms that are even long enough to achieve a 5,000 point base. This multiplied by the 224 would be over ONE MILLION in an INSTANT. (1,120,000 to be exact)

The lesson learned? Use SP in freeform, even if you must use it nowhere else.
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HylianHero  





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So...you would be able to just sing the seven notes of the scale and then hold one of the pitches to skyrocket your score? And from what I've seen, the SP just seems to make the base points go up faster, not necessarily like every other phrase. I'm probably wrong here, but whatever.

Also, a question I've had for anybody that might know. Is there any set note you should be singing to get the maximum amount of points out of the sections? I normally have to spend the first three or so seconds to find the pitch I need to sing, and by the time I get there, most of the sections are already over. I know the pitches for the best usage are the same in different freestyle sections in the same song, but I don't know if it works from song to song.
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LemonMeringue  





Joined: 27 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The beauty of manoftark's post is that it suggests that freeform sections are in the key of the song. Meaning, the 7 notes you sing correspond to the 7 notes of the scale the song is in (at that part). This is just really cool to me, as a musician.

If this is true, it would seem to me that the maximum pitch would probably be the base note the song is in.
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wildbillkickoff  





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that at least once I've gotten an 8x.

What has given me the most success is pretty much exactly what manoftark said, with one tweak. There seems to be one "magic tone" for each freeform phrase that gives you score faster than anything else. So, what I've been doing is singing a chromatic scale (all 12 tones in an octave), trying to remember which of the twelve is the "magic" one, then reverting back to that once I've gone through the scale.

And stacking multipliers will definitely lead to some ridiculous full band scores. The end of Hotel California jumps to mind, where I believe there are 4 freeform phrases back to back-- it's technically possible to get over 500K by getting an 7-8x freeform multiplier plus your own 4x plus 8x for the band star power x 4 phrases, from just a 500 point freeform base.
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sentimentalgeek  





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, thanks manoftark. That kind of makes sense and I'll definitely be trying that out. I think whenever I've done freeform sections, I typically try to be in key with the song just for the sake of making it sound semicoherent, but it makes sense that the game could be designed to reward you for doing precisely that.

And as wildbillkickoff mentioned, I've have noticed that there seem to be "magic tones" that make the points shoot up faster. Possibly it does have something to do with the base note of whatever key the song is in, like LemonMeringue suggested. (Now I wish I knew more about music theory so I could try this out more methodically...)

Am I the only person who thinks that the points you can get from the freeform sections are just ridiculous though? Maybe Neversoft is attempting to compensate for the fact that the normal phrases are worth half as much as they are in Rock Band, but this is extreme. Personally I'm getting annoyed that the biggest way to improve your score in vocals is during sections where there is no singing in the original recording.
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wildbillkickoff  





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sentimentalgeek wrote:
Am I the only person who thinks that the points you can get from the freeform sections are just ridiculous though? Maybe Neversoft is attempting to compensate for the fact that the normal phrases are worth half as much as they are in Rock Band, but this is extreme. Personally I'm getting annoyed that the biggest way to improve your score in vocals is during sections where there is no singing in the original recording.


You're not the only one, SG. It's a broken system all around, and we're just trying to make the best of it. One thing is for certain, though-- vocals will be the key to full band pathing, just like RB.
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yksi-kaksi-kolme  





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sing the guitar part, but add in notes between the notes of the guitar to get more points.

EDIT: That part about the seven notes of a song's key is pretty interesting. I'm pretty sure Crazy Train is in A major (going by the intro riff, which includes the notes A B C# D E F# G#), so I'm gonna give that a try later... mainly because it's the only song whose key I'm sure of
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AdamTL7  





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sang every note on my keyboard in one octave into the section on Scream Aim Fire. These are the notes that will get you points, and the highest i got was a x6 multiplier :

B
C#
D#
F
F#
G#
A#

It doesnt seem like any scale, because the F should be an E, but Scream Aim Fire won't give you points for an E
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LemonMeringue  





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it possible that the notes you are supposed to sing to get points changes with each chord change in the section contained within the freestyle section? For example, if the freestyle section is comprised of a 3 chord progression, the notes you sing to actually get points changes with each chord change?

If so, holy crap

Edit: I've found that even when i sing the scale, i tend to get added multiplier only at certain points during the freestyle. This could be just me sucking, but has anybody else had this experience?
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manoftark  





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps different freeforms have different max multipliers. The blues scale I'm familiar with only has 6 notes. There are also a lot more scales than just major and minor, and I mentioned earlier that some pitches I sang would increase my multiplier by 2 instead of one, as if a couple of cents sharp or flat would have made a difference, but I was unable to detect.

I'll try out Scream Aim Fire later and post the results.
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