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Wiki Improvements: Star Power and Overdrive Paths!
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JCirri  
 




Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 4500
Location: Baltimore, MD

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 6:54 am    Post subject: Wiki Improvements: Star Power and Overdrive Paths! Reply with quote

Alright, I've been talking about regenerating interest in the wiki, specifically in pathing. There's now several good sources of path information around the net including topics/stickies on SH as well as other sites. Some based on software-calculated paths and others based on manual efforts, often geared towards certain games or instruments, and usually all focused strictly on solo play.

On the ScoreHero Wiki, there are specific pages for every combination of instruments and difficulties for each GH and RB game available. The problem has been the (massive number of) pages contain little information, and visibility to that information is limited making it a large effort to navigate and check for a path that usually doesn't exist. This in turn has lowered motivation to contribute information that won't be used, especially when an account upgrade is required and there's no standard editing format. This is a cycle that's continued to degenerate.

Several vast improvements have been made to stop the decline and turn things around:
  • PathChanges page showing recent activity, top contributors, and detailed breakdowns of community progress (lots of pretty colors!).
  • Standardized format to contribute paths to the wiki.
  • Embedded info links from Manage Scores to wiki song pages which also indicate if a path exists (=has path, =no path).
  • A new method to gain write access in order to contribute:
    1. Old Method - Upgrade your account with 5 contribution points for guaranteed access.
    2. New Method - Fill out this simple form to apply for access.

The application process is available for all ScoreHero members. Depending on certain factors (which won't be revealed) you might be automatically approved upon submitting the form. Otherwise your request will be entered into a queue for the SH staff to review and either approve or reject at our discretion. While logged in, you may check the application page at any time for the status of your request.

Once upgraded or approved, you will be able to add paths or other relevant information to any of the 100,000+ wiki song pages. While you may edit new information however you choose, the proper way to add path information is through the {{path}} action. For instructions, templates and examples of the syntax, refer to the HowToAddPaths page.

Never hesitate to add information to the system just because you aren't sure that your path is the best, and haven't checked every corner of the Internet to know if a better one exists. Others can always improve on a path later, and anything aimed to help is better than nothing. I would also like to start encouraging pathing discussions to take place in wiki comments (e.g. "Is ____ squeeze possible?") similar to the old "Star Power FAQ" forums we have here. Through the combination of discussion and collaborative editing, we should be able to build community knowledge and keep everything up-to-date.

To get things rolling, a LOT of work needs to be done before the wiki will be deemed useful by the majority of users. We need to turn a good number of those red info icons in Manage Scores green, to get people submitting scores to check and use the paths, ultimately driving more interest and reversing the downward cycle. As I mentioned earlier, many good sources of paths already exist that we should embrace. If you're not interested to design paths on your own, but still want to help, there's plenty of information from other sources to put on the wiki. To list several:
If on the other hand you are an experienced pather, or are interested in learning to path, codemann8 has developed a great javascript-based editor on pathhero that, for certain games and instruments, allows you to create path images easily on-the-fly for viewing. Not only will your paths be indexed for use and peer-review on pathhero, but now that paths are publicly viewable, you can simply grab the URL to submit for reference on the appropriate wiki page here.

Other image editing techniques are also fine, and if you prefer to work locally and host them online yourself, there are a lot of blank charts available for download at slowhero, as well as the SH Wiki pages themselves (a link is shown in the infobox if a blank chart exists). Here's a guide by Sully showing one method to write your own charts. It's also perfectly acceptable to submit a path with no image at all. As the HowToAddPaths page indicates, there are many ways to contribute with anything (or everything) that's available. It's even possible to submit video URLs to YouTube/uStream/other videos demonstrating the path.

My hope is for the PathChanges page to serve to set community goals and monitor progress towards completion. Let's think of this as a "pathing drive" similar to the donation drive from a few years ago. As such, I may soon be adding an overall dynamically-updating progress bar to the top of every ScoreHero webpage to spark motivation and link here for more information.

In the future, we may implement a reliable way to integrate path contributions with the contribution points system. If that happens, all prior contributions will be retroactively included. In the meantime, Top Contributors are listed and broken down by category, so you will always be gaining credit and recognition for your efforts.

I have faith that we can turn things around and make the wiki the ultimate knowledge-source it was meant to be. Now let's get started changing all that red to green!
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Last edited by JCirri on Tue May 26, 2009 11:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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TSorbera  
 




Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Posts: 2152

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To follow up on how to get images from PathHero: Edit: PathHero no longer requires you to be logged in in order to view charts, so you can add a link to the PathHero path page as the "image" link.

You'll need the ScreenGrab extension (or something similar, e.g. this works with IE) and this Actions file I made for Photoshop 7.

Here's how to get the chart from PathHero and put it on ScoreHero:
  1. View the chart on PathHero
  2. Right click > ScreenGrab! > Copy > Complete Page/Frame...
  3. Open Photoshop 7
  4. Go to File > New, press Ok, then press Ctrl+V to paste in the screenshot
  5. Download PathHero.atn somewhere you'll remember
  6. Back in Photoshop, make sure the Actions window is shown (Window > Actions), then press the little right arrow on it and click Load Actions..., browse to PathHero.atn and click Load
  7. Expand the PathHero Actions folder, click on the RB or GH action, depending on which series you got the chart from, and click the little Play button at the bottom
  8. Save it somewhere
  9. Upload it to ImageShack or similar
  10. Add it to SH (here's how)
Since this was created in Photoshop 7, it's likely that it won't work with any newer versions of Photoshop, so here are the specifics of how it works so anyone can remake it in a newer version of Photoshop or their own little app or something. Here's what needs to be done (in this order):
  1. Cut off top 383, left 32, and bottom 116 pixels
  2. Reduce width to 1028 for GH or 1008 for RB
If anyone can verify that this works in a newer version of Photoshop or can recreate it, post with your Photoshop version (and the actions file you created, if applicable) and I'll add that info here.
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Last edited by TSorbera on Tue May 26, 2009 6:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Cyberwaste  
 




Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 2500
Location: Port Macquarie, the fine... planet of Australia. Chippy-chip-CHURRAH!

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TSorbera wrote:
Since this was created in Photoshop 7, it's likely that it won't work with any newer versions of Photoshop.

I have Photoshop CS3, so I will have a run with this preset, but I think that the script will work. I will edit this with the results of a run on PSCS3 with this preset.

And awesome job JC, we're on the way back up to making the wiki a hive of activity.
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toymachine  
 




Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 9339
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this looks awesome so pretty all the colours

and hopefully this will motivate people to make it all GREEN!
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ArmourTheLlama  
 




Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 500
Location: Surrey, England

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

YES! Really good idea + job JC. thanks.
Also, what Toy said. Hopefully people will now be motivated to get a path for just about everything, but of course with 100,000+ pages, not everything will be done.
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shermanmeow  
 




Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 195
Location: Bremerton, WA.

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand the form needs to be filled out to contribute/edit paths and whatnot, but not being an avid user of the wiki, does an account upgrade/form need to be filed to discuss paths?
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JCirri  
 




Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 4500
Location: Baltimore, MD

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope, anyone registered can leave comments on the wiki pages. You only need the upgrade/approval in order to edit the actual page content.
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IndestructibleSD  
 




Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 1321
Location: Topsfield, MA

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is so awesome, thank you so much JCirri! Months of my whining finally paid off!
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Cabanon  
 




Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 4743
Location: Quebec, Canada

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nice job JC

i have one major problems while entering any game.
since the all combinaiton of instruments is selected as well as the difficulty, my pc is rushing to get it open, it took 5 mins for the damn page to open up and i cant navigate it without freezing. too much info maybe ?
but once a instrument & difficulty is selected, its ncie, its the All/All combo that make it freeze.
is there a way to click the game, then click what instrument you want, then the difficulty, like everything on this site ? manage/top score/ranking/stats, etc..
most of users will find this better like it is now, but for old PC users, i dont know if they'll be willling to wait that long to check path.
or maybe its my PC, but i dont think so.

otherwise, its seems perfect and a nice addition to the wiki.
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singemfrc  
 




Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 3463
Location: California

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great idea, I added one already
This really solves the biggest problem with wiki paths, which was that the song pages too long to find. This makes them accessible, bravo.
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codemann8  
 




Joined: 10 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice, glad to see this finally being added to the Wiki...I've been wondering when it would happen
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JCirri  
 




Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 4500
Location: Baltimore, MD

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cabanon wrote:
nice job JC

i have one major problems while entering any game.
since the all combinaiton of instruments is selected as well as the difficulty, my pc is rushing to get it open, it took 5 mins for the damn page to open up and i cant navigate it without freezing. too much info maybe ?
but once a instrument & difficulty is selected, its ncie, its the All/All combo that make it freeze.
is there a way to click the game, then click what instrument you want, then the difficulty, like everything on this site ? manage/top score/ranking/stats, etc..
most of users will find this better like it is now, but for old PC users, i dont know if they'll be willling to wait that long to check path.
or maybe its my PC, but i dont think so.

otherwise, its seems perfect and a nice addition to the wiki.

I've added a new way to change all options at once through a small form. Those with more powerful PCs or preference to swap a single option with one click still have the other links available. Hopefully that helps.
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SaidinWoT  
 




Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 190
Location: United States

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 2:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Wiki Improvements: Star Power and Overdrive Paths! Reply with quote

JCirri wrote:
I would also like to start encouraging pathing discussions to take place in wiki comments (e.g. "Is ____ squeeze possible?") similar to the old "Star Power FAQ" forums we have here.


On the topic of squeeze possibility, I made an excel spreadsheet that uses all of the current understandings of the GH3 game engine (and can easily be adapted for the GHA, GHWT, and GHM engines) that tells you exactly how much SP you get out of whammy phrases, and exactly how many beats you can squeeze. Should be useful in finding out if squeezes are possible or not.
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codemann8  
 




Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 1027
Location: Oshkosh, WI

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a question though, what would be wrong with just linking directly to the path's page on PathHero...I know you have to login first to view it (that's simply just to get more people to rate paths, that way people don't feel like they have to do a ton of work just to be able to rate)...couldn't you just link it directly from PathHero ie. pathhero.codemann8.com?path=XXXX...that way there isn't an abundance of unnecessary paths on Photobucket

and...
TSorbera wrote:
Here's what needs to be done (in this order):
  1. Cut off top 383, left 32, and bottom 116 pixels
  2. Reduce width to 1028 for GH or 1008 for RB

This may not be necessarily true for the top as it varies, the size, due to the advertisements on top...
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Last edited by codemann8 on Tue May 26, 2009 2:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ramza89  
 




Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Posts: 44
Location: washington

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 2:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Wiki Improvements: Star Power and Overdrive Paths! Reply with quote

SaidinWoT wrote:
JCirri wrote:
I would also like to start encouraging pathing discussions to take place in wiki comments (e.g. "Is ____ squeeze possible?") similar to the old "Star Power FAQ" forums we have here.


On the topic of squeeze possibility, I made an excel spreadsheet that uses all of the current understandings of the GH3 game engine (and can easily be adapted for the GHA, GHWT, and GHM engines) that tells you exactly how much SP you get out of whammy phrases, and exactly how many beats you can squeeze. Should be useful in finding out if squeezes are possible or not.


out of curiosity i'm wondering how you did that. did you figure out every songs' BPM, time signature, etc., and find how much SP you got from whammying one beat of every time signature? if not, how did you do it?
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