Barracude confusion. (Game mechanics analysis)

[Garwood]

So I was going through the Vocal career on expert for the achievement and when i got to Barracuda i got really confused. (I do vocals for fun nothing serious)

I'm not certain how common a practice this is but when i have plenty of time I like to lead before the notes actually get to me so I can make sure i have the pitch right but when I was doing Barracuda it seemed the notes were a pitch I couldn't physically sing. If i kept trying to go lower i ended up back at the top because I was in a different Octave.

This made me fail a couple times but once I just gave up on trying to figure it out and just tried singing it by ear I got it without much trouble.

Later I was thinking about it and decided that perhaps the reason i couldn't get the pitch lined up early is because there is just simply a "Dead Zone" on the vocals track at the top and bottom where the pitches overlap.

For this thread lets think that the Vocals Highway is split into 5 sections.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
1
2
3
4
5
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you were to sing a scale when there were no words you could see the vocal fireball go all the way up to section 2 and then it would skip down to section 4 and continue to wrap around in the middle 3 sections but it would never actually go into section 1 and 5.

Why is this?

I think that it is for the sake of avoiding confusion when you may have words and phrases skipping from the bottom of the vocal highway to the top and vice versa. The very edges of the highway are reserved for situations where this would happen in order to keep the pitch bars looking logical.
That means that singing a pitch in section 1 would be the same as section 4 and section 5 would be the same as section 2. (am i confusing you yet?)

What i mean is that the Bold sections the same pitches and Underlined sections are also equal to each other
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
1
2
3
4
5
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


For example lets say we didn't have the edge sections and had a phrase that scaled all the way up the entire vocal highway (1 octave?) but it started in the middle it would look like this.

The periods are simply for formatting purposes sorry if it's confusing
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
2.........______/
3 ___/
4.....................______
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you didn't realize that the highway wraps around that would realllly confuse you and even if you did it would look confusing and be hard to keep track of your pitch when you make the jump. This is where the edges come into play.

With the overlapping edges the phrase would only scale up and would never skip down to the bottom so you get a nice 'simple' scale looking like this.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.....................______
2........______/
3 ___/
4
5
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

So this means if i'm trying to hold out a note early but the phrase appears in section 5 It is impossible to be exact because it is in an edge section which the fireball won't normally enter but my best bet to at least be close would be getting the fireball in section 2 so it will snap down to section 5 once I actually reach the phrase in question.


So by now you're probably thinking "What's the point of this thread?"

Well. I'm not sure. I'm not even sure if everything i've said is even correct but It was something that was really bugging me and I think i figured it out. I'm hoping if anyone else has been confused by this it might help them understand how the game works and help them through sections where they can't figure out how to lead their phrases.


So yeah. Is that how it works?
_________________

21st Century Schizoid Man 5* X+ Drums [x]

[Garwood]

So I was going through the Vocal career on expert for the achievement and when i got to Barracuda i got really confused. (I do vocals for fun nothing serious)

I'm not certain how common a practice this is but when i have plenty of time I like to lead before the notes actually get to me so I can make sure i have the pitch right but when I was doing Barracuda it seemed the notes were a pitch I couldn't physically sing. If i kept trying to go lower i ended up back at the top because I was in a different Octave.

This made me fail a couple times but once I just gave up on trying to figure it out and just tried singing it by ear I got it without much trouble.

Later I was thinking about it and decided that perhaps the reason i couldn't get the pitch lined up early is because there is just simply a "Dead Zone" on the vocals track at the top and bottom where the pitches overlap.

For this thread lets think that the Vocals Highway is split into 5 sections.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
1
2
3
4
5
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you were to sing a scale when there were no words you could see the vocal fireball go all the way up to section 2 and then it would skip down to section 4 and continue to wrap around in the middle 3 sections but it would never actually go into section 1 and 5.

Why is this?

I think that it is for the sake of avoiding confusion when you may have words and phrases skipping from the bottom of the vocal highway to the top and vice versa. The very edges of the highway are reserved for situations where this would happen in order to keep the pitch bars looking logical.
That means that singing a pitch in section 1 would be the same as section 4 and section 5 would be the same as section 2. (am i confusing you yet?)

What i mean is that the Bold sections the same pitches and Underlined sections are also equal to each other
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
1
2
3
4
5
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


For example lets say we didn't have the edge sections and had a phrase that scaled all the way up the entire vocal highway (1 octave?) but it started in the middle it would look like this.

The periods are simply for formatting purposes sorry if it's confusing
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
2.........______/
3 ___/
4.....................______
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you didn't realize that the highway wraps around that would realllly confuse you and even if you did it would look confusing and be hard to keep track of your pitch when you make the jump. This is where the edges come into play.

With the overlapping edges the phrase would only scale up and would never skip down to the bottom so you get a nice 'simple' scale looking like this.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.....................______
2........______/
3 ___/
4
5
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

So this means if i'm trying to hold out a note early but the phrase appears in section 5 It is impossible to be exact because it is in an edge section which the fireball won't normally enter but my best bet to at least be close would be getting the fireball in section 2 so it will snap down to section 5 once I actually reach the phrase in question.


So by now you're probably thinking "What's the point of this thread?"

Well. I'm not sure. I'm not even sure if everything i've said is even correct but It was something that was really bugging me and I think i figured it out. I'm hoping if anyone else has been confused by this it might help them understand how the game works and help them through sections where they can't figure out how to lead their phrases.


So yeah. Is that how it works?
_________________

21st Century Schizoid Man 5* X+ Drums [x]

[bclare]

I also had a whole lot of trouble with this song, even though I would say I know the song pretty well. Obviously I can't help but it's an interesting idea, let's see what someone who can actually sing this says.
_________________

I'm back I suppose

[bclare]

I also had a whole lot of trouble with this song, even though I would say I know the song pretty well. Obviously I can't help but it's an interesting idea, let's see what someone who can actually sing this says.
_________________

I'm back I suppose

[squall1729]

If it's any consolation, I know exactly what you are talking about -
tbere were a few songs in GH:WT with this problem too, from memory Hey Man, Nice Shot, or maybe Freak on a Leash?

Unfortunately, I don't believe there is a way to be able to hit the right spot early, except if maybe the phrase marker line starts a bit before the note itself starts (if that still happens in the new one...)
_________________

My band - album(ish) recorded!! - http://www.thepegasi.com/

PS3 GHWT player - PSN = sql_lall
Don't tell me to Learn-to-Play-a-Real-Guitar!

[squall1729]

If it's any consolation, I know exactly what you are talking about -
tbere were a few songs in GH:WT with this problem too, from memory Hey Man, Nice Shot, or maybe Freak on a Leash?

Unfortunately, I don't believe there is a way to be able to hit the right spot early, except if maybe the phrase marker line starts a bit before the note itself starts (if that still happens in the new one...)
_________________

My band - album(ish) recorded!! - http://www.thepegasi.com/

PS3 GHWT player - PSN = sql_lall
Don't tell me to Learn-to-Play-a-Real-Guitar!

[yksi-kaksi-kolme]

I've DEFINITELY noticed this in quite a few songs, and it's incredibly annoying in Stop! because it's in the middle of the song. It's too low for the comet to go to. Not only that low part; the chorus phrases are too high for the display so the comet goes to the bottom. The comet simply refuses to go to the very bottom or top of the highway (in fact, it hardly even gets close). I've done a few tests, and it seems that the lowest note it can display is A and the highest is G#. However, when a phrase is G# or lower, oftentimes it gets stuck at the very bottom of the highway instead of being up so high. Normally it depends on the octave of the actual singer (in fact, you can even take advantage of this in Evil - during "Under the sign of the moon," "Under the sign of the" is at the bottom and "Moon" is at the top but they're really the same pitch). Because of this, it's impossible to lead into a phrase that's too high or low early; the comet stays in its "comfort zone" and snaps to the right pitch as soon as the said pitch in the phrase strikes it.

It's quite odd, actually, and ridiculously frustrating in low or high songs.

The only theory I have is that it's completely dependent upon the octave the singer is in; if it sounds higher, they chart it up at the top and vice versa.

This may be a bit of a strange example, but I'm going to try to liken this to guitar: Take the intro of Bulls on Parade. You're playing over and over again. If you know the actual tablature, it's just F# F#8vb over and over; same note, but different octave. Yet, they charted it the way it sounds, namely "high-low high high-low high high-low." I think that's what's going on with vocals, too; it looks how it sounds.
_________________

My Accomplishments - GH | RB || My Youtube Channel || My Customs

[yksi-kaksi-kolme]

I've DEFINITELY noticed this in quite a few songs, and it's incredibly annoying in Stop! because it's in the middle of the song. It's too low for the comet to go to. Not only that low part; the chorus phrases are too high for the display so the comet goes to the bottom. The comet simply refuses to go to the very bottom or top of the highway (in fact, it hardly even gets close). I've done a few tests, and it seems that the lowest note it can display is A and the highest is G#. However, when a phrase is G# or lower, oftentimes it gets stuck at the very bottom of the highway instead of being up so high. Normally it depends on the octave of the actual singer (in fact, you can even take advantage of this in Evil - during "Under the sign of the moon," "Under the sign of the" is at the bottom and "Moon" is at the top but they're really the same pitch). Because of this, it's impossible to lead into a phrase that's too high or low early; the comet stays in its "comfort zone" and snaps to the right pitch as soon as the said pitch in the phrase strikes it.

It's quite odd, actually, and ridiculously frustrating in low or high songs.

The only theory I have is that it's completely dependent upon the octave the singer is in; if it sounds higher, they chart it up at the top and vice versa.

This may be a bit of a strange example, but I'm going to try to liken this to guitar: Take the intro of Bulls on Parade. You're playing over and over again. If you know the actual tablature, it's just F# F#8vb over and over; same note, but different octave. Yet, they charted it the way it sounds, namely "high-low high high-low high high-low." I think that's what's going on with vocals, too; it looks how it sounds.
_________________

My Accomplishments - GH | RB || My Youtube Channel || My Customs

[Raikri999]

I've seen this very little, but to be the most honest I can, going by this method will screw you up somewhere. To really do this, you need a trained ear to hear what pitch sounds like what on a lower octave, your method may work for most songs, but I really wouldn't trust it, that is if you are.

[Raikri999]

I've seen this very little, but to be the most honest I can, going by this method will screw you up somewhere. To really do this, you need a trained ear to hear what pitch sounds like what on a lower octave, your method may work for most songs, but I really wouldn't trust it, that is if you are.

[Garwood]

[Garwood]