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Tiering of All-Speaking Songs
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dr00bles  





Joined: 12 May 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:31 pm    Post subject: Tiering of All-Speaking Songs Reply with quote

Why in God's name aren't all the all-speaking songs in any of the GH games lumped together in the first tier? Does this bother anyone else? I understand that it might be boring for the first four/five songs to all be talkies, but come on. Just alternate talky songs and easy singing songs in the FIRST TIER.

Consider GH:SH. Raining Blood is in the second tier. Laid to Rest is in the THIRD tier. Who do they think they're kidding? A loud dishwasher could literally FC Raining Blood.

Any thoughts as to why they decide to do things this way?
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themoron112  





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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Tiering of All-Speaking Songs Reply with quote

dr00bles wrote:
Why in God's name aren't all the all-speaking songs in any of the GH games lumped together in the first tier? Does this bother anyone else? I understand that it might be boring for the first four/five songs to all be talkies, but come on. Just alternate talky songs and easy singing songs in the FIRST TIER.

Consider GH:SH. Raining Blood is in the second tier. Laid to Rest is in the THIRD tier. Who do they think they're kidding? A loud dishwasher could literally FC Raining Blood.

Any thoughts as to why they decide to do things this way?


It bothers me... alot. Rock Band has the same problem - Harmonix put Give it Away, a song with 1 pitched phrase, in the second to last tier. Maybe they expect you to scream it like the singers do.
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sedron  





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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always thought they tiered all-talky songs as if the talkies functioned in a RB1 manner. In that case, if you had to actually sound like the singer in these songs, these songs wouldn't be so easy.
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Armisael  





Joined: 10 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Besides name-value (which is an important part of tiering), the talkie songs are probably tiered as if they were completely pitched. That'd explain why Give It Away is so high, for instance.
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dogfoodnyc  





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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From my experience with the GH Talkies, you still need to time the phrases in order to hit Excellent (yes, I can't not play with sticks for the life of me and I am often either off beat or behind when I sing).

Or maybe it is because they thought of the BAND DIFFICULTY as a whole before they separate them into individual catagories? For example, b/c Ranining Blood is so much harder on Guitar if you put it on Tier I, the overall band difficulty of the song will be bring down a Tier and thus is unreasonable?

Oh well, I am just babbling.
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dr00bles  





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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dogfoodnyc wrote:
From my experience with the GH Talkies, you still need to time the phrases in order to hit Excellent

I don't think this is the case.. but I could be wrong. It was like that in Rock Band 1 (and kind of like that in RB2), but for GH I'm pretty sure it just depends on whether there's any sound registered in the mic when the words scroll across.

As far as band difficulty, I'm pretty sure there's a separate tiering for band. The solo careers all have their own tiering, supposedly based on that instrument's difficulty for each song.

The only argument that I've seen that I kind of agree with is the "name value" comment. It may just look lame to have Raining Blood be the easiest song in the game. Even though it is the easiet (on vocals, obvi).

Same reason why TTFAF is last for everything. It's not the hardest vox song, but it's the "boss song", so it's automatically put at the end.

Ya know?
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Silly  





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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think another factor is that having every talky song in the first tier would not be a good way to introduce someone new to vocals into the game - having a entire first tier where you could 100% the song no matter what you did, and then going straight to tier 2 which would have no talky songs at all (thereby suddenly requiring the singer to have more than a pulse to pass/FC them) would be a huge difficulty curve and might put people off trying vocals completely.
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GuitarHailz  





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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've wondered this too and I honestly think they have the players in mind in this one.

Think about it. Lets say Bob is entirely new to vocals, pops in the disc, and FC's the entire first tier on sightread cause they're all talkies. Then he'll think he's awesome at vocals and the 2nd tier will kick him in the balls.

I think they do this for variety. Many tiers have songs that feel out of place, but I believe this is done so that one can be prepared for whats to come. Every first tier has "that song that shouldn't be in the first tier." We on SH don't like the inaccurate representation of difficulty, but I imagine the average person playing down the list song by song appreciate the slight variations in difficulty because it allows them to actually improve, not just play the easy songs all at once, then be at a road block when the "next level" comes along.

Edit: Damn ninja'd
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dr00bles  





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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GuitarHailz wrote:
I've wondered this too and I honestly think they have the players in mind in this one.

Think about it. Lets say Bob is entirely new to vocals, pops in the disc, and FC's the entire first tier on sightread cause they're all talkies. Then he'll think he's awesome at vocals and the 2nd tier will kick him in the balls.

I think they do this for variety. Many tiers have songs that feel out of place, but I believe this is done so that one can be prepared for whats to come. Every first tier has "that song that shouldn't be in the first tier." We on SH don't like the inaccurate representation of difficulty, but I imagine the average person playing down the list song by song appreciate the slight variations in difficulty because it allows them to actually improve, not just play the easy songs all at once, then be at a road block when the "next level" comes along.


Well played.
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tidus  





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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silly wrote:
I think another factor is that having every talky song in the first tier would not be a good way to introduce someone new to vocals into the game - having a entire first tier where you could 100% the song no matter what you did, and then going straight to tier 2 which would have no talky songs at all (thereby suddenly requiring the singer to have more than a pulse to pass/FC them) would be a huge difficulty curve and might put people off trying vocals completely.

GuitarHailz wrote:
I've wondered this too and I honestly think they have the players in mind in this one.

Think about it. Lets say Bob is entirely new to vocals, pops in the disc, and FC's the entire first tier on sightread cause they're all talkies. Then he'll think he's awesome at vocals and the 2nd tier will kick him in the balls.

I think they do this for variety. Many tiers have songs that feel out of place, but I believe this is done so that one can be prepared for whats to come. Every first tier has "that song that shouldn't be in the first tier." We on SH don't like the inaccurate representation of difficulty, but I imagine the average person playing down the list song by song appreciate the slight variations in difficulty because it allows them to actually improve, not just play the easy songs all at once, then be at a road block when the "next level" comes along.

Edit: Damn ninja'd

This pretty much happened on Rock Band 2. With exception of some tiers, there are one talky song per tier.

But well, while it may not make sense, at one point at least I understand the way these talky songs are tiered. It's a way to help introducing the new vocalist.
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But yeah, lol @ the fact that you can say "she" in this thread and not be sure which person is being talked about. Now we know whose milkshake brings all the girls to the yard.
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DeusExProcella  





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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:32 am    Post subject: Re: Tiering of All-Speaking Songs Reply with quote

dr00bles wrote:
Just alternate talky songs and easy singing songs in the FIRST TIER.


I think you guys missed this. On-disc, there typically aren't a full tier worth of talkie songs.

I think the first tier of smash hits could have conceivably been:

Raining Blood
Cowboys from Hell
Laid to Rest
Unsung
Killing in the Name
Psychobilly Freakout

Encore: Freebird

Also on the Note of TTFAF: It's not the hardest song, no. But it's still a pretty fucking hard song. It would be last tier even if it wasn't the final encore so to speak.
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dr00bles  





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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Tiering of All-Speaking Songs Reply with quote

DeusExProcella wrote:
Raining Blood
Cowboys from Hell
Laid to Rest
Unsung
Killing in the Name
Psychobilly Freakout

Encore: Freebird

Agree, except I wouldn't start with a non-singing song.

I'd propose:

Heart Shaped Box
Killing in the Name
Unsung
Laid to Rest
Psychobilly Freakout
Raining Blood

Encore: Freebird
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bclare  





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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Tiering of All-Speaking Songs Reply with quote

dr00bles wrote:
DeusExProcella wrote:
Raining Blood
Cowboys from Hell
Laid to Rest
Unsung
Killing in the Name
Psychobilly Freakout

Encore: Freebird

Agree, except I wouldn't start with a non-singing song.

I'd propose:

Heart Shaped Box
Killing in the Name
Unsung
Laid to Rest
Psychobilly Freakout
Raining Blood

Encore: Freebird


I was going to say that.

And all the GHSH talkies require no skill whatsoever to FC. I literally scrape my fingernails across the mic when I don't feel like wasting my breath on them, and I've never missed one.
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machetemonkey  





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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a -3 on Laid to Rest expert vox sightread because I tried to imitate the singer, and apparently I was too "breathy"

So... all talky songs aren't gimmes.
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toymachine  





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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tell that to the Ugh I got a solid on in KiTN :P
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