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Bmad965  





Joined: 16 May 2009
Posts: 129

PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another small issue with the drum charts is that the 10th, 20th, and 30th notes are counted as being under the higher multiplier when they are not. However, if one of these notes actually contains two notes, the one hit first will not be counted under the new multiplier, but the one hit second will.

For example if you look at Eye Of The Tiger on hard, the score after 10 notes with no multiplier would be (using a RB drum kit)
(75 + 50) * 10 = 1250

The SlowHero chart shows measure 9 being worth 400 points even though it only has 300 points worth of notes so the last pair of notes must be doubled. Adding in the extra points for bass pedal gives you
1100 + 9 * 25 + 1 * 50 = 1375

If you play the song (still on a RB drum kit) you will get either 1300 or 1325, depending on if you hit the bass pedal first or last respectively.

I've only tested this on WT using RB drums but I would imagine it would be the same everywhere. Just thought I'd let you know about the issue.

Also, I remember reading somewhere that orange notes are changed to blue and BO to GB on the RB drums.
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BlueTornado  





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see that you have GH5 charts up, but they're not as informative as the GH:SH ones. Is it possible to upgrade them or make them as informative as the GH:SH charts? Also, when I click on "download all" for GH5 guitar charts, it says "page not found".
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Cabanon  





Joined: 29 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlueTornado wrote:
I see that you have GH5 charts up, but they're not as informative as the GH:SH ones. Is it possible to upgrade them or make them as informative as the GH:SH charts? Also, when I click on "download all" for GH5 guitar charts, it says "page not found".


the harts were not provided/extracted by codemann, they were by RubyDanger. he did not put extra info. he might do in the future.

http://www.scorehero.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=87575&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=585
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codemann8  





Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 1048
Location: Oshkosh, WI

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlueTornado wrote:
I see that you have GH5 charts up, but they're not as informative as the GH:SH ones. Is it possible to upgrade them or make them as informative as the GH:SH charts? Also, when I click on "download all" for GH5 guitar charts, it says "page not found".

Whoops, I did not mean to have these charts up on ChartHero as these aren't my charts...thats why the zip doesn't exist
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tma  





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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hheemm  





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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 charts that I noticed were in the wrong time. Lonely Is The Night, and So Lonely (2 lonely's lolwhat?) On Lonely is the Night, at the beginning, it says it goes from 4/4 to 2/4 then back to 4/4 in measure 8, but the first 4 is a little smudged. The measures are still in 2/4, but they should be 4/4, as the SP drains normally. Also in measure 167, it says it's going into 4/4 time, but it should really be going into 2/4 time, as the SP drains twice as fast.

For So Lonely, I'm pretty sure the whole song is in 4/4 time, but the chart has the measures at 3/4.

Those are the only 2 that I checked.
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Robbert  





Joined: 21 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bumping this, since codemann is updating charthero with WoR charts (which I didn't check yet. >_>)

codemann8 wrote:
matt6662 wrote:
Hmm... looks to be another great addition to the codemann franchise.

Also, a suggestion. Perhaps we mark what sections are slider sections. I'm working on something right now with Back in the Saddle, but I'll send it to you codeman, or just post it here, and see what you think. (This might take a few days though, gotta play through again and see WHAT EXACT NOTES are under the slider lines...

Letting me know which notes specifically are slider notes won't help as the code would be able determine which notes are slider and which ones are regular....however, I don't know what part of the code deals with something like that so it may be awhile until something like that would be added, but I'll definitely keep that in mind tho


For GHWT (I haven't checked GHSH and onward, but my guess is that it's the same since there haven't been any drastic guitar engine changes), slider notes are defined in a section similar as the SP sections in a length 3 DWORD array. First section is start, second duration. I'm not sure what the third is, the values I've encountered are either 1 or 2.
Slider notes are simply treated as HOPOs in the note information, it's the slider section that allows for a different engine approach.

tma wrote:
ProffessorJoe wrote:
also, any chance of having something separate for RB drum pathing? i know it would probably not be worth the effort. I'm just curious because i only use a RB set and while using a RB set the extra points for an orange note do not get carried over. This would make the charts only accurate for GHWT drum set pathing hmmm, seems like either way theres no way to be able to path for both with the same chart >.<


There is no separate entry in the game files for the Rock Band charts; I have assumed that the game actually converts the drum charts on the fly to suit the rock band kit via some algorithm. If this could be worked out, then generating RB charts should be fairly easy, as we can just pass the song chart through a conversion step before passing it to the rest of the code. Actually working out the algorithm isn't something I was prepared to spend time on myself though.


Correct. The game uses an in-game algorithm to compress the orange lane with either the blue or green lane.
What I read some time ago, is that the orange cymbal maps to the blue RB pad, unless there's already a note present there, in which case it'll map to the green pad on the fly.
http://kotaku.com/5039534/ps3-world-tour-rock-band-compatible

Not sure if it's true, though. I've also read a post which says the cymbal is only mapped on the green pad.
The best way is to simply try it out.

I've recently been looking into Expert+ charts and it would appear that the Expert note information contains Expert+, so there must be a trigger somewhere, either in the note information or separately configured, which turns off notes.
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codemann8  





Joined: 10 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Robbert"]Bumping this, since codemann is updating charthero with WoR charts (which I didn't check yet. >_>)[\quote]
Yes, and I made a change to the database earlier today which I believe broke ChartHero so don't count on that as of yet, your best bet is to check PathHero in the Create page

Robbert wrote:
codemann8 wrote:
matt6662 wrote:
Hmm... looks to be another great addition to the codemann franchise.

Also, a suggestion. Perhaps we mark what sections are slider sections. I'm working on something right now with Back in the Saddle, but I'll send it to you codeman, or just post it here, and see what you think. (This might take a few days though, gotta play through again and see WHAT EXACT NOTES are under the slider lines...

Letting me know which notes specifically are slider notes won't help as the code would be able determine which notes are slider and which ones are regular....however, I don't know what part of the code deals with something like that so it may be awhile until something like that would be added, but I'll definitely keep that in mind tho


For GHWT (I haven't checked GHSH and onward, but my guess is that it's the same since there haven't been any drastic guitar engine changes), slider notes are defined in a section similar as the SP sections in a length 3 DWORD array. First section is start, second duration. I'm not sure what the third is, the values I've encountered are either 1 or 2.
Slider notes are simply treated as HOPOs in the note information, it's the slider section that allows for a different engine approach.

This is an old post but you are correct, there is a portion of the raw data where that is all defined. But, the engine (and data) is quite differently represented in GH5 on.
Robbert wrote:
tma wrote:
ProffessorJoe wrote:
also, any chance of having something separate for RB drum pathing? i know it would probably not be worth the effort. I'm just curious because i only use a RB set and while using a RB set the extra points for an orange note do not get carried over. This would make the charts only accurate for GHWT drum set pathing hmmm, seems like either way theres no way to be able to path for both with the same chart >.<


There is no separate entry in the game files for the Rock Band charts; I have assumed that the game actually converts the drum charts on the fly to suit the rock band kit via some algorithm. If this could be worked out, then generating RB charts should be fairly easy, as we can just pass the song chart through a conversion step before passing it to the rest of the code. Actually working out the algorithm isn't something I was prepared to spend time on myself though.


Correct. The game uses an in-game algorithm to compress the orange lane with either the blue or green lane.
What I read some time ago, is that the orange cymbal maps to the blue RB pad, unless there's already a note present there, in which case it'll map to the green pad on the fly.
http://kotaku.com/5039534/ps3-world-tour-rock-band-compatible

Not sure if it's true, though. I've also read a post which says the cymbal is only mapped on the green pad.
The best way is to simply try it out.

I've recently been looking into Expert+ charts and it would appear that the Expert note information contains Expert+, so there must be a trigger somewhere, either in the note information or separately configured, which turns off notes.

This is good information, I think it may take some people to really figure out what the real consistent algorithm is. I think you are right on the money with the Expert+ charts, however, I haven't been able to dig into those details as of yet.
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Robbert  





Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 373
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

codemann8 wrote:
Robbert wrote:
Bumping this, since codemann is updating charthero with WoR charts (which I didn't check yet. >_>)

Yes, and I made a change to the database earlier today which I believe broke ChartHero so don't count on that as of yet, your best bet is to check PathHero in the Create page


You broke pathhero too, it would seem. I'm getting a lot of PHP MySQL errors and indications that the chart has been removed. Well, it's not that borked since I can see the charts, but showing the MySQL errors is fugly.

codemann8 wrote:
Robbert wrote:
codemann8 wrote:
matt6662 wrote:
Hmm... looks to be another great addition to the codemann franchise.

Also, a suggestion. Perhaps we mark what sections are slider sections. I'm working on something right now with Back in the Saddle, but I'll send it to you codeman, or just post it here, and see what you think. (This might take a few days though, gotta play through again and see WHAT EXACT NOTES are under the slider lines...

Letting me know which notes specifically are slider notes won't help as the code would be able determine which notes are slider and which ones are regular....however, I don't know what part of the code deals with something like that so it may be awhile until something like that would be added, but I'll definitely keep that in mind tho


For GHWT (I haven't checked GHSH and onward, but my guess is that it's the same since there haven't been any drastic guitar engine changes), slider notes are defined in a section similar as the SP sections in a length 3 DWORD array. First section is start, second duration. I'm not sure what the third is, the values I've encountered are either 1 or 2.
Slider notes are simply treated as HOPOs in the note information, it's the slider section that allows for a different engine approach.

This is an old post but you are correct, there is a portion of the raw data where that is all defined. But, the engine (and data) is quite differently represented in GH5 on.


I only posted it because I didn't see you make any comments about finding it out for those games.
I haven't looked into GH5, probably because I dislike the game.

codemann8 wrote:
Robbert wrote:
tma wrote:
ProffessorJoe wrote:
also, any chance of having something separate for RB drum pathing? i know it would probably not be worth the effort. I'm just curious because i only use a RB set and while using a RB set the extra points for an orange note do not get carried over. This would make the charts only accurate for GHWT drum set pathing hmmm, seems like either way theres no way to be able to path for both with the same chart >.<


There is no separate entry in the game files for the Rock Band charts; I have assumed that the game actually converts the drum charts on the fly to suit the rock band kit via some algorithm. If this could be worked out, then generating RB charts should be fairly easy, as we can just pass the song chart through a conversion step before passing it to the rest of the code. Actually working out the algorithm isn't something I was prepared to spend time on myself though.


Correct. The game uses an in-game algorithm to compress the orange lane with either the blue or green lane.
What I read some time ago, is that the orange cymbal maps to the blue RB pad, unless there's already a note present there, in which case it'll map to the green pad on the fly.
http://kotaku.com/5039534/ps3-world-tour-rock-band-compatible

Not sure if it's true, though. I've also read a post which says the cymbal is only mapped on the green pad.
The best way is to simply try it out.

I've recently been looking into Expert+ charts and it would appear that the Expert note information contains Expert+, so there must be a trigger somewhere, either in the note information or separately configured, which turns off notes.

This is good information, I think it may take some people to really figure out what the real consistent algorithm is. I think you are right on the money with the Expert+ charts, however, I haven't been able to dig into those details as of yet.


I'm gonna try and figure out the Expert+ stuff today.
Using my current parser I can easily whip up an algorithm for GHWT-GHSH, but I'll need a video or two to confirm the correctness.
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Robbert  





Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 373
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's some info I gathered about the GHWT drums for GHWT - GHSH. First, I'll talk a bit about accented notes and then X+ bass notes. It's purely speculative, and, to be honest, the only way to verify it is with visual confirmation of every song, which I'm not going to do. :tooh:

Here's the sample data I used for accented notes. I gathered as much distinct accented combinations as I could find without seeming like I've got OCD. The notes come from all sorts of different GH games and were pulled from the PS2 version. It was really hard to find partial accented notes (e.g. a single, compound drum note where not every pad was accented): especially a sole (non)accented green in combination with some random accented note proved difficult to find.
As such, what I'm about to post is purely a theory.

I'll explain from left to right (most significant to least significant). Bytes are delimited by a | for better reading.
A compound note is what you actually see on the screen, e.g.: bass and yellow or bass, red and yellow. A single note is a component of a compound note: the first compound note consists of two single notes and the second one of three single notes.


Code:

              ? AAAA A
              X?OBYR G XOBYRG ( X = bass )
243662911 = 00001110|10000110|00000000|00111111 = Accented yellow note, nonaccented red
800063536 = 00101111|10110000|00000000|00110000 = Accented orange, bass
261226545 = 00001111|10010010|00000000|00110001 = Accented red, accented orange
799146032 = 00101111|10100010|00000000|00110000 = Accented red, bass
799539249 = 00101111|10101000|00000000|00110001 = Accented blue, bass
799080495 = 00101111|10100001|00000000|00101111 = Accented green, bass
260636697 = 00001111|10001001|00000000|00011001 = Accented green, accented blue
244449319 = 00001110|10010010|00000000|00100111 = Accented orange, nonaccented red
528613434 = 00011111|10000010|00000000|00111010 = Sole accented red


You have to read the column headers from top to bottom, eg AO = the bit which toggles Accented Orange. A ? means I have no clue what that bit does.

My guess is that once a compound note is toggled as being accented, ALL pad parts (red, green, blue, orange, yellow) are accented by default, The bits with A[X] above it can be used to untoggle velocity detection for specific parts of that compound note. The notes with unaccented reds supports this theory: the LSB of the first byte is 0 and those notes have unaccented snares: the rest is accented, but they don't need to be present in the compound note, per se.
I can't prove this, because I couldn't find any notes where the red is accented and some other pad isn't (or some other, similar combination).

Any ideas?


Code:
[... Raining Blood, Measure 33 ...]

              ? AAAA A
              X?OBYR G XOBYRG ( X = bass )
000393259 = 00000000|00000110|00000000|00101011 = RY note, both nonaccented
536870955 = 00100000|00000000|00000000|00101011 = X+ Bass note
538968107 = 00100000|00100000|00000000|00101011 = Bass note
536870955 = 00100000|00000000|00000000|00101011 = X+ Bass note
539230251 = 00100000|00100100|00000000|00101011 = Bass note, yellow note
536870955 = 00100000|00000000|00000000|00101011 = X+ Bass note
538968107 = 00100000|00100000|00000000|00101011 = Bass note
536870955 = 00100000|00000000|00000000|00101011 = X+ Bass note
539361323 = 00100000|00100110|00000000|00101011 = Bass note, yellow note, red note
536870955 = 00100000|00000000|00000000|00101011 = X+ Bass note
538968107 = 00100000|00100000|00000000|00101011 = Bass note


As you can see, there's no toggle bit present. In fact, unlike all other notes, X+ bass notes don't have any info defined with them in the second byte, at all. This, of course, limits the use to one compound note type only (in this case, base). In short: the GHWT-GHSH engines are probably build in such a way that when there is absolutely nothing in that second byte no note will be rendered on the screen on X difficulty or lower, and X+ simply treats them as bass notes.
My parser simply says that there is a note present at the X+ bass note, but doesn't render anything or associates a value with it, so it's just empty. Perfect for X, not good for X+. Easy fix, though.

This pattern is also used in Beast And The Harlot, and it holds in GHM's Dyers Ever, too.

I'm fairly certain that this is how X+ bass notes are treated in pre-GH5 X+ games.
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codemann8  





Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 1048
Location: Oshkosh, WI

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, this is great info...I'm sure that why my parser doesn't display anything either...then again I never went back to check for blank drum notes, but I'm sure that is what it is doing. And as for the accented notes, good find, I remember when I last looked into accented notes, I didn't have much of a sample to work with so it was very hard to follow and figure out what is accented and what isn't...this will help me include this when I rebuild my code.

Interesting note...I noticed in GHWoR that there are "sometimes" 9 bytes associated to a drum note, I haven't been able to determine what the last byte is for, I told my parser to ignore it, but for first few I saw, they were just zeros...see this thread and open the deadfall.note file, search for 0xa1da8586, if you read the thread, this is a "Section Type"....the checksum's value is "gh6_expert_drum_note" vs all the rest say "gh5_blah_..._note"...this could be the toggle you are looking for, but thats just a guess
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Robbert  





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I understand how the GHWT->RBdrums translation works. I'll post it once I get to work, I seriously need to get going.
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Robbert  





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off, a bit on what the drums actually mean in GH and RB:

Code:

Colour | Rock Band Drums           | Guitar Hero Drums
---------------------------------------------------------
Red    | always snare drum         | always snare drum
Yellow | tom drum or hi-hat cymbal | always hi-hat cymbal
Blue   | tom drum or splash cymbal | always tom drum
Green  | tom drum or crash cymbal  | always tom drum
Orange |           N/A             | always crash cymbal


This simply translates to the following mapping:

GHWTDrums Red maps to RBDrums Red (always snare, a logical one)
GHWTDrums Yellow maps to RBDrums Yellow, because yellow in the RB drums can double as a hi-hat and a tom drum. However, the tom drum isn't used.
GHWTDrums Blue maps to RBDrums Blue, in a similar fashion as Yellow maps to Yellow.
GHWTDrums Green maps to RBDrums Green, in a similar fashion as Yellow maps to Yellow.

In short, every non-orange note is mapped to the same colour on either drum: no translation happens there.

Seeing the above table will make you think that every time you see a Orange note, it'll be translated to green, as green is the crash cymbal in the RB kit. This is not true: GHWTDrums Orange is mapped to RBDrums Blue.
'What if there already is a blue note present, like in Vicarious' Expert chart?' I hear you ask. Well, then it will be mapped to a green note.

In short, the orange lane will be merged with the blue or green lanes. Orange will become blue if there's no blue note present along with the orange note. Orange will become green if there is a blue note.

I adapted my parser to add RBDrums support, so every orange is translated according to the algorithm I described above:

Code:
                            if( track == "rbdrums" ) {
                                if( note.ORANGE ) {
                                    note.ORANGE = false;
                                    if( !note.BLUE ) {
                                        note.BLUE = true;
                                    } else {
                                        note.GREEN = true;
                                    }
                                }
                            }


It's not the cleanest code, but I don't care.

To verify it, I watched three youtube videos and compared it with the results of my parser:
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O66PUdrQyU -> Easy drums FC of Hot For Teacher on the RBDrums. It has a lot of Orange notes in it, all of which are translated to blue.
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41EldRlSWJw -> Expert GHWT drums on Vicarious. Contains a lot of compound notes containing orange. At 3:53, you'll see an Open, Orange, Blue note.
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylXUqdiw9eM -> Expert Vicarious drums on RBDrums. Notice how all of those compound notes with orange are translated to blue. The part I mentioned in the previous video is located at 3:57. As you can see, it has become an Open, blue, orange compound note. Exactly what you'd expect based on the above algorithm.

RBDrums charts, from what I've noticed, don't seem to have less notes than GHWT notes.
Other example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz7JL7oa0WU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyMS9M6aV-M
Pull Me Under X drum FCs: note count for both: 2271.

Accented notes are turned to normal, because RB drums don't have velocity detection.

This is all just a theory, but it seems correct. Does anyone know if there are songs which have a different number of notes per instrument?
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codemann8  





Joined: 10 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another good post, a way to test your theory is to test each note case:
R
Y
B
O
G
RY
RB
RO
RG
YB
...etc

and see what each will convert to when plugging in RBDrums...because I would believe that each conversion will happen the same. Looking at the pseudocode you came up with, it would make total sense, but you know, just to make sure...
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Robbert  





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Posts: 373
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't taken the time to test it out yet. The easiest way is probably to just create a sample drum track which covers every useful note combination. There are only 30 useful combinations, so the check isn't too hard.
It'd be really weird if the translation has specific conditions on a per song basis, but we can't rule out anything.

I'll have a gander and see if I can record and upload from my phone, as my regular capture equipment is upstairs and I'm not willing to fork out money for HDMI capture stuff. :p I have both drums, so I can check easily.

That wasn't pseudo code, btw. :P It's a small snippet from the parser I wrote.
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