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The OMB breakdown reference (GHWT+GHM breakdown complete!!!)
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ace5993  





Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 1920

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yay, breakdown complete. Regarding songs that are tough on all instruments versus songs that are only tough on one instrument, I think of it like this:

Take a person who has never played GH. Would it be easier to be EXTREMELY good at one instrument or very good at all four. In my opinion it is the former. That is why a song like Hot For Teacher will always be WAY harder to OMB FC than Satch.
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fudrick  





Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 2372
Location: Orlando, Florida

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ace5993 wrote:
Yay, breakdown complete. Regarding songs that are tough on all instruments versus songs that are only tough on one instrument, I think of it like this:

Take a person who has never played GH. Would it be easier to be EXTREMELY good at one instrument or very good at all four. In my opinion it is the former. That is why a song like Hot For Teacher will always be WAY harder to OMB FC than Satch.


This is what I was trying to say but for some reason I was having a lot of trouble putting it into words that made sense, like I said before.
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FC Goals: GH1 - 46 [43] | GH2 - 64 [63] | GH80's - 30 [29] | GH3 - 70 [68] | GHA - 41 [00] | GHWT - 85 [00] | GHM - 48 [10] | GHSH - 47 [00] | RB2 - 84 [02]


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ElementOfZero  





Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 2270
Location: Lake Park, Georgia

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:05 am    Post subject: Re: The OMB breakdown reference (GHWT breakdown complete!!!) Reply with quote

Quote:



  1. Hollywood Nights
  2. Love Removal Machine
  3. Crazy Train
  4. Schism
  5. Soul Doubt
  6. Trapped Under Ice
  7. Stranglehold
  8. B.Y.O.B.
  9. Overkill
  10. Parabola
  11. Assassin
  12. Vicarious
  13. Pull Me Under
  14. Purple Haze
  15. Hot For Teacher


There's my take on the final few considering Guitar Bass and Drums. I still think Trapped Under Ice is still underestimated, as it's top 10 hardest for all instruments. Overkill I feel was rated way to high, as there is only 1 problematic area for drummers (triplet fill) and one high problematic area for guitar (triplet tapping) and bass is hard but far from being the impossible bass songs that PoS, BYOB, and HfT are. Aside from that, it's the second song in the vocal setlist.

Stranglehold, imo, was also incredibly high on the list. The broken notes on drums are way easier to hit than Hotel California, TuI, and so on. While every instrument is hard, they're all on the lower end of their top 10 lists.

Hollywood Nights is just plain easier than listed. Sightread guitar FC, repetitive bass with no choke points, and drums you just have to be cautious with. There's nothing hard in the drums other than watching for the off-beat yellow every minute or paying attention to how many reds to hit.
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Pas26  





Joined: 04 Oct 2008
Posts: 3664
Location: Québec, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL at Satch Boogie being #50. Even Danny, the best guitar player, struggled with the FC. There is no way that someone trying to follow your breakdown will get it past Satch Boogie. No way. I am starting to agree about HfT being harder, but this shouldn't be anywhere close to #50... more like second hardest. Let's say that ccmoose decided to rape GHWT like he did with RB2. What would be his final FCs? HfT, SB, Purple Haze, maybe BYOB if he's having trouble with the bass track. It is much easier to get good at a new instrument than FCing the hardest songs in the game.

SAF should be much higher. Solo D is insane, and the drum chart is one of the hardest in the game. (After thinking about it, the stupid lonely O note in the BBBBBBBOGGGGGGGG rolls is gone on RB drums... but still insane).

SHA is too high. Guitar solo is WAAAAYYYY overrated, it's extremely easy using 3rd position and sliding down to hit the red.

EDIT: High = hard in this post.
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ace5993  





Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 1920

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright, made a few changes to the top of the list. Trapped Under Ice was moved up a few, Hollywood Nights and Soul Doubt down a few, and flip-flopped a couple others. The thing with Stranglehold is that it's 9 minutes long, and the ending is one of the hardest parts on every instrument. That means choke potential on a nine minute song times three for the number of instruments. Overkill I find the rhythm very hard to play, but maybe I'm just bad at that song. I'll wait for more input on that one.

As for Satch, the thing is, there are no vocals. If there were vocals, it would probably be top 5 hardest. There are a lot of people who can't FC anything on vocals, and that is why NSTB and Satch get special treatment on the list.

*Just to make it clear, every OPINION in this post is just that - my opinion. If enough people disagree with me, I will change it. So don't think that if I say something like - Satch will never be top 10 hardest IMO, doesn't mean it won't be there on the list. So just keep arguing and I'll take note eventually *

Starting work on GHM using Pas's breakdown as a handy starting reference
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9001  





Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 3690
Location: North New Jersey

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That Satch Boogie rating is the worst I've ever seen. You know that only 3 people have gotten FCs of Satch Boogie on guitar, right? And then you also have to factor in bass and drums. Even though they're not HARD, it's still something. You still need to know how to play drums decently. But 54 is an awful placement for a song that only has 3 FCs on a particular instrument.

A OMBFC is an FC on every instrument. How can you get a OMBFC if barely anybody can FC it on one instrument?
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ace5993  





Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 1920

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

9001 wrote:
That Satch Boogie rating is the worst I've ever seen. You know that only 3 people have gotten FCs of Satch Boogie on guitar, right? And then you also have to factor in bass and drums. Even though they're not HARD, it's still something. You still need to know how to play drums decently. But 54 is an awful placement for a song that only has 3 FCs on a particular instrument.

A OMBFC is an FC on every instrument. How can you get a OMBFC if barely anybody can FC it on one instrument?


You know that a good handful of songs on drums and vox have only been FC'd 3-5 times, right? Some with much harder guitar than Satch has drums and bass. Most OMB FCs are near impossible for just about everyone. That's why they are so highly regarded.
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Pas26  





Joined: 04 Oct 2008
Posts: 3664
Location: Québec, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know I won't change your opinion alone... so I'll try to make this breakdown better, and maybe move SB up rank by rank.

(BTW I know nothing about vox, so I need help with it)


Obstacle 1 is a little harder than Satch Boogie in your breakdown.

Satch:
15 Total drums FC (GHWT + RB)
3 Guitar FC
Bass is easy and there aren't any vox.

O1:
Vox FCs: 24 on the first page.
RB Drums 100%: 15, but 3 don't have a streak
GHWT Drums 100%: 12, but only 9 FCs.
Guitar: Easy easy easy
Bass: easy easy easy

We can clearly say that Satch Boogie is harder to OMB than O1, right? Satch Boogie drum chart is even harder than O1 if we look at the rankings.

Love Spread:
Total drums FCs: 13. Slightly less than SB, but SB guitar chart is 100 times more difficult.

Hotel California: 9 Drums FC because of glitched note, but Guitar and Bass charts are pie. Wait, 2 easy instrument, a hard one... just like SB, but easier.

HeartBreaker: ~ 20 Drums FCs. Bass is slightly harder than Satch Boogie, but the guitar charts aren't even close.

SHA: 21 Drums FC. Still easier than SB drums

I just wanted you to know that you underestimated Satch Boogie drum chart. It's not and auto-FC like you think it is.
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ace5993  





Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 1920

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And the GHM breakdown is finished. I really don't see how War Ensemble is the hardest OMB FC, there are maybe 3 really hard rolls on drums and the rest is just stamina. There aren't really any tricky patterns in the beats, and there is very little variance. All Nightmare Long is synced badly, causing issues for all three instruments, and is overall the hardest IMO. Dyers Eve and FFWF would both be ahead were it not for the sync issues.
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Pas26  





Joined: 04 Oct 2008
Posts: 3664
Location: Québec, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ace5993 wrote:
And the GHM breakdown is finished. I really don't see how War Ensemble is the hardest OMB FC, there are maybe 3 really hard rolls on drums and the rest is just stamina. There aren't really any tricky patterns in the beats, and there is very little variance. All Nightmare Long is synced badly, causing issues for all three instruments, and is overall the hardest IMO. Dyers Eve and FFWF would both be ahead were it not for the sync issues.


Well, nobody FCed War Ensemble yet. I counted 17 rolls, and at 14-15 NPS they are brutal. 3 of them are Red-Blue cluster.

Then you have those choke points: (None of them were counted in the 17 rolls)

measure: (10 / 26 / 46-47 / 83-84 / 126 / 134 )

Then you have 57 measures of ~6 NPS bass to do. This is 70 seconds of 6 NPS bass through the song.

Guitar and bass parts are also hard, so this is no Satch Boogie.




You underestimated Stone Cold Crazy drums, they are MUCH harder than anything near it.

Go try Turn the Page final roll on drums. I also heard that vox were hard, so this shoud be harder.

You underestimated the difficulty of the drums in Toxicity, badly. Multiple, fast rolls to break a combo.

Idk why FFWF is harder than Dyer's Eve. Every instruments but vox are easier in FFWF.

ANL... I'm no Someguy, yet I can FC the Y rolls fairly easily. Only 2 hard fills IIRC.

Battery is harder on every instruments compared to The Boys are back in Town.

I think you should go replay GH:M on drums...

Now I know I'm saying a lot, but discussion is important for a good breakdown.
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ace5993  





Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 1920

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess you're right about War Ensemble. I think guitar/bass/drums alone it would be the hardest, but vocals only has two pitches plus really easy slides, and the rest is talkies. The top 5 or 6 in the breakdown are very close IMO.

I don't remember SCC being too hard on drums, but then again, I haven't played it in a while.

Toxicity - OK

True, but FFWF vox compared to Dyers Eve vox is like comparing Jordan to Shout at the Devil. It's really that extreme difficulty difference. I changed it though...

ANL - OK, I was kind of fuzzy on the drum chart again.

But the difference is that you could 5 star Battery vox by singing one note (I'm pretty sure this is true). The Boys are Back in Town is VERY hard on vox (second or third hardest in the game easily). Even so, I moved Battery up a few because I watched a video of the drums and it's much harder than I thought it was.

I can't replay anything on drums since they broke
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ElementOfZero  





Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 2270
Location: Lake Park, Georgia

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pas, there's no comparing Obastacle 1 drums to Satch Boogie's. Despite being less submitted FCs, SB is definitely the easier of the two. Everything in the song is standard sticking and is a shorter song. Yes, it has a roll which most will utilize double strokes, but Obstacle 1's hard part is something like 2 minutes long with an odd pattern that switches from single to double to single back to double strokes for quite some time. Then comes the rolls with added bass and loss of some pads. Not to mention the faster part of the choruses towards the beginning/middle of the song is already harder than anything in Satch Boogie.

The biggest problem with the comparison is that O1 is in the last tier--which is well known for people setting goals of FCing something in the final tier. SB is in basically the "bargain bin" of the left over songs after career. Shit, I didn't go for SB or Love Spreads for so long because I totally had forgotten about them.

I'm willing (without much of a reservation) to call SB guitar the single hardest FC---even though its has 3 FCs. That's actually a huge number compared to many drum songs. Hot For Teacher, Scream Aim Fire, Purple Haze, Vicarious, Strangelehold, Parabola, Trapped Under Ice, Soul Doubt, Pull Me Under, hell even L'Via (finger's crossed for me making it 3 :P). I'm surprised Assassin made it to 4 FCs.

I don't see any real way of saying SB is as hard/harder than those unless every one of those get's at least 3 FCs, and an instrument doesn't exist in each of them. For SB you're basically only looking at 1 chart. Drums are mediocre difficulty at best, and bass is easy so those won't effect it's overall difficulty to OMB FC

I'd really love an actual mathematical interpretation of data (like I suggested in a previous post, and was being done at some point) the only real way of showing which are easier is to look at every player and see correlation between what they've FCed between every instrument. The reason why PH and HFT are high is because every player who has FC it on one instrument has not FCed it on another (save bass/guitar), while if you get SB you're almost guaranteed the OMB FC. (if you're not lazy )
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iceefudgesickle  





Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, I lost an argument earlier in this topic about Satch Boogie being the hardest to OMBFC, and I actually agree that it isn't the hardest to OMBFC now. But #62? LOLLOLOLOLOLNO. Not even close. Anywhere below 75 is COMPLETELY wrong. And the drums aren't easy, like you say - they're not particularly hard, but they're at least moderate. There are plenty of rolls and the whole song has kind of a weird swing rhythm. It certainly takes being a solid expert player to FC it - you can't JUST be amazing at guitar to OMBFC Satch.

And I would personally put War Ensemble at the top spot in GH:Metallica considering it remains unFCd on one instrument and both guitar and bass are incredibly tough as well, but the top spots there are all really close, so that's not as crazy as SB at 62.
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Pas26  





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Location: Québec, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ElementOfZero wrote:





True. I mainly play GH:M drums, and people like someguy only go for the hardest of the hardest. But 3 Satch Boogie FCs =/= 3 L'Via FCs. Guitar (at least on this side) is 10 times more popular. There are 19 pages of scores for Satch Boogie on guitar, but only 4 (2 on WT drums and 2 on RB drums) on drums. People don't care enough about WT drums to go and get many FCs... this might change once GH5 comes out since exporting will fix the broken activations and the broken note counts.

In my post, I was only trying to say that SB drums were not as easy as stuff like Beat it, and that another song with only one hard instrument shouldn't be ranked lower than SB.
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Thirdkoopa  





Joined: 19 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pas26 wrote:
Beat it, and that's another song with only one hard instrument

2* You have the pretty chokeable purple notes on guitar AND The vocals.

Also I believe Love Me Two Times is underrated on this...44? Uh:
http://www.scorehero.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=91284 - TIER 6 Drums. While this is for Passing/5Stars, something that high up...
http://www.scorehero.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=84474 - Only 16 songs higher than it. And some from my experiences as a vocalist are easier than LMTT. Seriously, I got one armed scissor (TWICE) Way faster. There's so many chokable verses and the hitboxes are so small on almost all.
http://www.scorehero.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63177#GHWT - Top 20 once again in difficulty. Those trills are ridiculous and underrated. Many parts to choke on with those. It was one of the songs that took me quite some time just to 5*
http://www.scorehero.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=84376&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight= - Around the top 20's...This one was pretty chokable on bass, apparently the easist of them all (Can't remember drums enough to say)

It's pretty around the top 20's in each instrument, so I'd say it deserves some sort of higher placement, especially with at least how ridiculous the vocals/guitar is on it. Comments?
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