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bjwdestroyer  





Joined: 30 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[Expect this guide to be done before... 2009 :P]

[Edit: Fuck... it's 2009... OK, I swear I will write this thing eventually, until then, you can find out about the scoring systems on Touhou Wiki or you can even talk to me on IRC or something. As for now, I'll lean you guys torward whatever scoring system you are interested in learning first: MoF's is the easiest to understand and revolves greatly around bomb spam; PCB's is the most strategic and involved, being quite complex and requires actual planning before doing runs, of which involves getting borders at distinct times (especially zones known as critical points); IN and SA's are simply a step up from EoSD's lack of intermediate scoring system... While IN, SA, and PCB all revolve around graze, IN and SA actually focuses on graze abuse and purposely timing out cards and patterns in order to max out time or communications respectively]

The Gameplay (Advanced): Score Theory and Integrable Explorations of Modern Linear Danmaku

So, you've made it this far. If you're reading this, then you want to take your game a step further. You want to be: someone who can someday plow through Hard and Lunatic, someone who can capture difficult spell cards with ease, confidence, and consistency, someone who cares about score. Basically, you want to dominate. This section is to help bring that dream closer to reality.

Of course, results won't come instantly, so you will have to work and practice quite a bit in order to become as good as you want.


[Manga is read top down, right to left]

Don't be like Komachi above. Do work and make things happen, and to start, continue reading this guide

Hitboxes: We All Have One

As stated in the beginner section of the guide, your character has a very small hitbox located somewhere around the center of their sprite. This hitbox is in the shape of a square with rounded sides, roughly 5x5 pixels in area (Reimu's hitbox is approximately 4x4 pixels). If any bullet ever touches your hitbox, you die.

That last statement is not essentially true.

Guess what: bullets have hitboxes too. And just like the characters you control, their hitboxes are smaller than their actual sprite images. Of course, they aren't proportional to our sprite size vs. hitbox size (if that were the case, most medium sized bullets would have a 1x1 hitbox, making this series far easier in terms of dodge difficulty). However, it is important to note that you can get much closer to bullets than what you may at first think.

A typical rule of thumb is the bigger the bullet, the closer you can get to the center; the smaller the bullet, the hitbox of the bullet is approximately the same size as the sprite itself (this does not apply to Utsuho's sun bullets in Subterranean Animism, of which are huge and will kill you if you if you simply brush against their side (this does not apply to the sun bullets in Utsuho's third spell card, of which allow you to actually be engulfed by their perimeters... jeez, pick a fucking hitbox and stick with it >_>)).

A good example displaying bullet hitboxes is my time out video of Yuugi's second Lunatic spell card: note that I am using Reimu (smaller hitbox), and that all the bullets I am dodging are those giant bubble ones. Oftentimes, you can see my hitbox brush against or even get slightly engulfed by their perimeters; I'd wager to say that the outer half of the white rings on those bullets are safe.

Understanding the bullets you dodge and how close you can get to them is highly important for both scoring and understanding how to dodge certain patterns, thus, try to become familiar with the different types of bullets (this comes naturally if you simply play the game).

General Dodging Strategies

Spread across a plethora of games, there is a crapload of danmaku patterns: either from the stages, noncards, or spell cards. There is no way to detail how to dodge each one unless I do exactly that: detail how to dodge each one (note that a lot of spell cards are truly unique, in that you will never see their pattern again). Instead, here you will find general strategies on how to dodge commonly used danmaku patterns and dynamics. For all the patterns not covered here, you're on your own. Just remember that that doesn't mean it will take long to figure them out: knowing the tips and strategies below, as well as having a lot of danmaku/Touhou experience will make you very adept at dodging any new pattern immediately. Quick thinking and good dodging comes in time.

Aimed Shots are extremely common. I mean, seriously, they are extremely common. They virtually appear in every stage, and a huge amount of noncards and spell cards feature some sort of aiming nuance. In fact, every Extra Stage in the main 5 Windows games begin with aimed shots (no idea why ZUN does this, perhaps it's to make noobs fear the Extra Stages).

Aimed shots come in multiple variants, but they all do the same thing: bullets come directly to the position you were standing in when they were first shot. Thus, to dodge them, you move anywhere but your last position when the shot was first fired. Of course, it isn't always that easy. On higher difficulties, aimed shots may be prolonged and quick streams of bullets. Other times, constant lasers may be aimed against or around you, making gigantic walls wherever they travel. Sometimes, it may just be a single bullet, but they are fired on a frequent basis.

Ultimately, there is a single, tried and true method to dodge practically any aimed pattern: start from one side of the screen, and slowly inch to the other side (note, this can be vertical or horizontal). Usually, the pattern will be gone by the time you make it to the other side, but when dealing with bosses or stages where it's just one aimed wave after another, you need to alter your game plan. Notice that when you slowly inch from side to side (chances are, you will be focused), a huge wall of bullets will form to the side you are moving away from. Well, if you think about it, you can make an opening by doing a sudden leap (unfocused movement) to the other side. Doing this will oftentimes open up walls of bullets and allow you to then inch back to the side you just escaped from (example). Understand that this will not solve every aimed pattern, but instead, this general idea applies to all aimed patterns and slight tweaks to it will allow you to take on all of them.

Shotgun attacks look just how they sound: they are bursts of concentrated shots all heading in the same direction. Sometimes, these shots are even aimed (such as Cirno's first noncard, or halfway into EoSD's Extra Stage). These shots are oftentimes seen in stages rather than bosses, and they can be pretty unfriendly considering they typically fill the screen. There are two ways to dodge them: micrododging and macrododging.

Micrododging involves going inside the shotgun blast and dodging the individual bullets or pattern within. This isn't always possible, however, because shotgun blasts aren't typically simplistic to dodge from within.

When micrododging just isn't possible, macrododging is used; here, you go around the entire shotgun blast altogether. This method is used most frequently since the majority of shotgun attacks are aimed and shot in rapid succession, or are just too complex from the inside (and sometimes, a mix of both).

Keep in mind that in most cases, one choice in terms of dodging shotgun bursts is completely superior over the other. Although, a mix of both techniques is sometimes required in order to survive (examples include Cirno's first noncard and Kanako's last spell card).

Clusterfucks, (sometimes called Danmaku From All Sides/Angles) are clusterfucks of bullets. Clusterfucks tend to involve bullets coming in from multiple angles (horizontal, vertical, diagonal), but they can also simply involve randomness (sometimes, only vertical randomness), and sometimes even a mix of everything.

Unfortunately, there is no real strategy to dodge these, but rather, only tips that can help:

1) Know your surroundings. As much as you want to, don't keep your eyes locked on your hitbox, and if you do, use your peripheral vision at the very least. You need to scout around in some way to understand the trajectories of all bullets so you can hopefully determine which ones you can forget and which ones you should focus on. This is a tough skill to grasp, especially if the clusterfuck is scary and you think you will die the moment you take your eyes off your hitbox. Practice to be confident and to understand the position of your hitbox and adjacent bullets from memory. Basically, your mind has to be nimble.

2) Sometimes, staying on the bottom of the screen is just stupid. Staying on the bottom of the screen only does one thing: it limits you to horizontal movement. Although this may be advantageous in that you can concentrate on less of what is on screen, you ultimately have less dodge room and you can't properly adjust to bullets traveling diagonally or horizontally. Many clusterfucks can be dodged with strictly horizontal movement, but some just can't.

3) Randomness is random. Likewise, you may not be able to catch your mind on every incoming bullet, and suddenly, you notice a bullet that is a split second away from hitting you. When this is the case, it's time to take your cemented finger off of the shift button and to rush away with unfocused movement. Once again, this isn't essentially easy to do: moving fast within a clusterfuck requires both confidence and skill. You may just want to bomb in order to survive, and sometimes, unfocused movement can't even save you so bombing is the only answer (I do not condone terrorism).

All-in-all, mastery of clusterfucks tends to be the toughest skill to master, but luckily, they occur uncommonly in stages. Bosses, sadly, are another story. Alright, I lied a bit: clusterfucks are common to both stages and bosses. Live with it. The difficulty of clusterfucks range from straightforward to mind numbingly difficult and tedious. The latter type of clusterfuck appears quite infrequently, and the most notable ones are located in Stage 4 EoSD (the section of the stage is known as "The Books"), and PCB Stage 6 (the section of the stage is known as "The Deathfairies").

And one last piece of advice: if you have Imperishable Night, use Spell Practice. It allows you to jump into any of the 222 spell cards in the game, and it is amazing practice if you want to improve your dodging skill really fast.

[Deathfairy is a word referring to a fairy (a common enemy in Touhou stages) that create complex and difficult patterns that can force you to exhaust a bomb or life]

[On a special note, I have uploaded myself capturing every Lunatic spell card, Extra Stage spell card, and Last Word from Imperishable Night to YouTube. Check them out on my page.]

Extra Stages: Ridiculously Fun Boss Battles

Aside from the six main stages in each Touhou game, there is an Extra Stage that continues the story. These stages are notorious for requiring a fair amount of memorization during not only the stage portion of the level, but the midboss and boss battles as well. Typically, an Extra Stage runs for about 10 minutes (the majority of that is the boss battle), with Phantasm being the longest, running 14 minutes long or even longer.

They all follow the same generic formula:
    - Oh so many aimed shots during the stage, especially at the very start
    - A midboss encounter who typically fights with either 3 spell cards or 1 noncard and 2 spell cards
    - A boss battle that usually consists of a whopping 8 noncards and 10 spell cards (2 of which are timeout cards).
    - Many of the spell cards revolve around a "trick." Until the trick is discovered, the spell card is ridiculously difficult or even seemingly impossible. Memorization of these tricks is key
    - PCB has a special second Extra Stage known as Phantasm Stage. This stage is a carbon copy of Extra stage, however, the difficulty is ramped up and several cards are altered (an extra time out card is also added)

Other than that, I really don't have anything else to say about the Extra Stages. If you want to clear them, be prepared to grind them for a long time: they revolve around trial and error until you find out what to do. If you want to beat it faster (although, I don't recommend this), then watch a video or a replay of someone else clearing the stage: remember what they do and what the tricks are for the spell cards.

Practice Mode and Imperishable Night's Spell Practice

[I'll edit this in later]

Characters: Which One Should I Use?

[I'll edit this in later]

Score Theory: Because We Care About Squeezing in Guitar Hero

Yeah, you can clear a stage with no deaths or bombs used, but are you maximizing your score? Like here at ScoreHero, there is a wide range of Guitar Hero players, some extremely good and some not so good. Similarly, no matter what skill level a player is at, some may squeeze while others may not. The same applies to Touhou, and score does matter when it comes to comparing one highly skilled player to another highly skilled player.

Of course, you could always say "well, scoring is unimportant and stupid."

Well...



General Scoring Techniques

[I'll edit this in later]

Advanced Scoring Techniques: The Intermediate Scoring Systems

[I'll edit this in later]

Back to: The Main Guide
Back to: The Gameplay (Intermediate): Touhou 101


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CleverTangent  





Joined: 03 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the very helpful posts, bjw. I can feel my addiction forming already.

Also, what type of capture program do you use for your youtube videos?
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bjwdestroyer  





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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CleverTangent wrote:
Thanks for the very helpful posts, bjw. I can feel my addiction forming already.

\o/

My last major post (after heavy editing is done in the Advanced section) will be an about me: how I first heard of the game, how I started, how long I've played, what made me addicted, etc.

Stay tuned :P

(I think MajorGeek42 might write one too, no idea)

CleverTangent wrote:
Also, what type of capture program do you use for your youtube videos?

I use Fraps to record, Camtasia to edit (Windows Movie Maker is sufficient), and MPEG Streamclip to do the final compile that I upload to YouTube.
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MajorGeek42  





Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bjwdestroyer wrote:
(I think MajorGeek42 might write one too, no idea)


Sure, why the hell not.

My first Touhou game was Perfect Cherry Blossom, and I first played it back on April 28th, 2008. Some buddies of mine over on a non-#scorehero IRC channel, on a separate network entirely, kept nagging everybody to go play Touhou because it was awesome and whatnot, so I tried it. I started off rather casually, as most players tend to do, usually getting my ass kicked on stage 4 (fucking prismriver sisters), the usual. From the start though, since there was a storyline to it as revealed in the dialogue between player and boss, I always read them. I also quickly learned that each character I picked had different dialogue sets with each boss as well as different endings, so I had to see every ending there was (which was quite the motivation for me to complete normal skill with each character). I also loved all of the music throughout the game, and especially noticed how the music for stage 4 was perfectly timed with the appearance and actions of Lily White, a fairy and minor midboss that only has the ability to announce the coming of spring (and the only way she knows how to do this is to rain danmaku on you).

The characters themselves also held my interest, from their intriguing personalities to their appearances, or rather, how cute some of them looked. The pic at http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Th07alice01.png especially made me go HNNNNNNGGGGGGGGG.

This interest in the characters and the storyline, combined with my love of the gameplay, are what kept me playing. There was also the whole spending time on fansites, encouraging others to try Touhou and/or listen to any of the tons of excellent music, and various other related stuff.

CTangent wrote:
Also, what type of capture program do you use for your youtube videos?


I know this was directed towards bjw, but I'd like to share as well. I also record with Fraps but only use Windows Movie Maker to convert for Youtube. Seeing as the computer I record on is rather old and obsolete and whatnot, I can't exactly record at the quality level that bjw reaches for his vids (check his older vids, he had the same kind of old computer issue that I did). I also cannot run MPEG Streamclip, as it tends to crash when I try to load the raw video file (shit sucks). I've at least figured how to manage high quality on Youtube, as is evidenced by my most recent videos, but it'd be nice to have a setup like bjw has. We both got into the video making part at about the same time, in fact, though I had lots of trouble finding the proper settings for everything to get it to look half decent.

Now for the all-important question regarding this post.

Why would anyone want to read this shit?

¯\(°_o)/¯
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voidedalive2x  





Joined: 29 May 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

why? because we care. And theres no point in making a long post if no one will read it (I read it )
though...I will admit that i do that myself .
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bjwdestroyer  





Joined: 30 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MajorGeek42 wrote:
Why would anyone want to read this shit?

¯\(°_o)/¯

I read it too ;)

Taking full advantage of this thread being all things Touhou, here's a new video/accomplishment of mine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIM50avTrfw

Haven't uploaded a new major video (in this case, an Extra Stage) for nearly 2 and a half months now. Took long enough :P

/me crosses out "Upload a Good Run of SA Extra" from his to do list
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voidedalive2x  





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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, that's gonna be a major ouch. All in all, though, it was a great run! you captured, what, 11 out of 13 cards? A no death run should come soon, I know it will!!! *shouts encouragement to bjw*.
Have you done all the extra stages now? And do you think you might decide to show the spell cards like you did with IN and kinda with MoF, EoSD, andPCB? Ill also be sure to try and find any difficult/tricky spell cards you could try to time out/beat.
and, since i dont have a YT account, mind if i post some of the things i might have said on those vids?
MoF Virtue of Wind God: my god, thats got to be the most danmaku EVER!! and theyre so fast...or its just lag on the video thanks to my crappy com.
That Remy vid: I think Remy found out something that made her pretty pissed, besides marisa coming into her mansion (maybe the reason Marisa came there in the first place?).
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RB accomps: RB3 MDrums FGFC! RB3 MOMBFGFC!
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CleverTangent  





Joined: 03 Sep 2007
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Location: North of Atlanta, Georgia

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just played Touhou 11 - Subterranean Animism for the first time today.

...what the hell.

There doesn't seem to be much in the way of continues, so I've only made it to halfway through the second level on Hard.



Yeah... quick death for me. I walled myself in to a corner.
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bjwdestroyer  





Joined: 30 Jun 2007
Posts: 4785
Location: I have more posts than you, who cares where I am.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

voidedalive2x wrote:
yeah, that's gonna be a major ouch. All in all, though, it was a great run! you captured, what, 11 out of 13 cards? A no death run should come soon, I know it will!!! *shouts encouragement to bjw*.

I could easily do a no death run, I'd just need to bomb a lot :P

I was personally aiming for a 12 card capture, no death run (bombing the second time out card to save me some sanity), but I'll gladly accept a 1-death run. If I was really pissed, I wouldn't have recorded and uploaded that run. I'm fine with what I have

voidedalive2x wrote:
Have you done all the extra stages now? And do you think you might decide to show the spell cards like you did with IN and kinda with MoF, EoSD, andPCB?

Yeah, I completed all the Extra Stages quite sometime ago, but I still have one more to upload (of which would be Phantasm... I'll do it sometime in the near future). As for spell cards, I do not intend on recording every lunatic card from all the games. The only reason I did that with IN was because of spell practice, so every card is easily accessible. When it comes to other games, I only plan on uploading famously difficult cards. Of course, that isn't essentially true: I enjoy timing out tricky/tough cards too.

CleverTangent wrote:
I just played Touhou 11 - Subterranean Animism for the first time today.

...what the hell.

There doesn't seem to be much in the way of continues, so I've only made it to halfway through the second level on Hard.

Yeah, starting with MoF, continues are infinite but they bring you back to the very beginning of the stage. This doesn't really suck aside for the fact that minimum lives are 3 per continue, so you don't really have much room to work with (especially if you are a fairly new Lunatic player trying to unlock, say, all of the Lunatic stages for Practice Mode). Although, it's a bit easier in MoF due to bomb abuse.

CleverTangent wrote:


Yeah... quick death for me. I walled myself in to a corner.

That is a really fun card :P

I'd offer advice but I'm sure you already have a clear idea on how to do it.


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voidedalive2x  





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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CleverTangent wrote:
I just played Touhou 11 - Subterranean Animism for the first time today.

...what the hell.

There doesn't seem to be much in the way of continues, so I've only made it to halfway through the second level on Hard.


meh, i actually prefer no continues, not unless im just trying to play the level. They take the skill out of playing, or at least limit the amount of skill. Though, they are a good idea if you just want to unlock stuff or see what a future stage looks like.

CleverTangent wrote:


Yeah... quick death for me. I walled myself in to a corner.



I dont think you walled yourself in a corner. Well, that does depend on how fast the bubbles were moving, because if they were going rather slow, you could have slipped to the left.

EDIT: oh, that wasnt you? well it sure sounded like it was you who was playing when that pic was made. You might want to rephrase the sentence under the pic. It could get confusing as to who you are talking about.
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CleverTangent  





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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

voidedalive2x wrote:
CleverTangent wrote:


Yeah... quick death for me. I walled myself in to a corner.



I dont think you walled yourself in a corner. Well, that does depend on how fast the bubbles were moving, because if they were going rather slow, you could have slipped to the left.


That wasn't a screenshot of me playing. I took that picture from here.
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bjwdestroyer  





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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

voidedalive2x wrote:
CleverTangent wrote:
I just played Touhou 11 - Subterranean Animism for the first time today.

...what the hell.

There doesn't seem to be much in the way of continues, so I've only made it to halfway through the second level on Hard.


meh, i actually prefer no continues, not unless im just trying to play the level. They take the skill out of playing.

I wouldn't dismiss continues entirely. When I was first getting into Touhou, I used continues extensively just so I could see stages 4, 5, and 6 (sometimes I needed continues just to get to stages 2 or 3 depending on the difficulty :P). Although continues may not necessarily make you a better player, they allow you to relieve some curiousity so you know what to expect later on once you get better at the earlier stages, and more importantly, it allows you to unlock those unreachable stages in Practice Mode. When Subterranean Animism was released this August, I used many, many continues to get my initial clear of the game on Normal difficulty (I used a shitload of continues on stages 4, 5, and 6... note that continues in MoF/SA start you at the beginning of the stage with default 3 lives). After doing this, I played Normal again and bam, 1cc'd it :P (all those continues basically acted as ample practice for stages 4, 5, and 6)

CleverTangent wrote:
voidedalive2x wrote:
CleverTangent wrote:


Yeah... quick death for me. I walled myself in to a corner.

I dont think you walled yourself in a corner. Well, that does depend on how fast the bubbles were moving, because if they were going rather slow, you could have slipped to the left.

That wasn't a screenshot of me playing. I took that picture from here.

Touhou Wiki is such a great source :P

Some of the guys that upload pictures make it look like some lower difficulty cards are harder than Lunatic cards, however >_>

voidedalive2x wrote:
Ill also be sure to try and find any difficult/tricky spell cards you could try to time out/beat.
and, since i dont have a YT account, mind if i post some of the things i might have said on those vids?

Sure. If a request interests me, I'll definitely check it out. And if it doesn't, well, sign up and make a YouTube account: they are useful to have :P

voidedalive2x wrote:
MoF Virtue of Wind God: my god, thats got to be the most danmaku EVER!! and theyre so fast...or its just lag on the video thanks to my crappy com.

It's really fast and clumped up. It's highly difficult but a blast to play :P

voidedalive2x wrote:
That Remy vid: I think Remy found out something that made her pretty pissed, besides marisa coming into her home (idk about her so just insert what might go there)

Remi is pissed because Marisa (or Reimu, depending which character you pick) is attempting to stop her goal of covering Gensokyo in a red mist. She's a vampire, Gensokyo covered in a red mist would allow her to walk out in the day, it's a terrible plot, this is kind of common early on in the series (maybe MajorGeek42 would say differently >_>)
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voidedalive2x  





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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

speaking of requests, I was thinking you could show some of the spells timed out (virtue of wind god, the ten evil suns one, for example), or done with no focus. Or, if its possible, just edit the existing videos with that at the end.

If you do decide on doing those, i wish you a whole lot of luck on virtue of Wind God.
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bjwdestroyer  





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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

voidedalive2x wrote:
speaking of requests, I was thinking you could show some of the spells timed out (virtue of wind god, the ten evil suns one, for example), or done with no focus. Or, if its possible, just edit the existing videos with that at the end.

If you do decide on doing those, i wish you a whole lot of luck on virtue of Wind God.

Ten Evil Suns has a safespot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwVs97w-HE4 (take note that this video was made 2 days after release... I was hoping that I was the first to discover it, but no, after 2 days, practically all of Japan knew... goddamn hardest of hardcore players >___>)

Time out VoWG? T_T

I'm probably gonna pass on that idea, although I'll still try it (every now and then I do open up MoF just to play VoWG a few times) and if I get a 2-death or 1-death run, I'll upload it. I don't think anyone outside of Japan has timed it out without a death or bomb.
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voidedalive2x  





Joined: 29 May 2008
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Location: jefferson city, MO

PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bjwdestroyer wrote:
Ten Evil Suns has a safespot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwVs97w-HE4 (take note that this video was made 2 days after release... I was hoping that I was the first to discover it, but no, after 2 days, practically all of Japan knew... goddamn hardest of hardcore players >___>)


oh there is? huh.. i didnt know that. And sorry to you for not finding it first.

bjwdestroyer wrote:
Time out VoWG? T_T

I'm probably gonna pass on that idea, although I'll still try it (every now and then I do open up MoF just to play VoWG a few times) and if I get a 2-death or 1-death run, I'll upload it. I don't think anyone outside of Japan has timed it out without a death or bomb.


outside of Japan? i suppose that probably should be obvious. Im still rooting for you though. Until then, good luck on a 1-death run!
ooo, i just though of something!! You and Majorgeek see who can no-death VoWG (or at least 1-death it) first!! lol
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