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KurtCobain 
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 1044
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
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 Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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I posted earlier in this thread about pushing religion into people's faces. Some Christians today really are hypocrites, and some aren't.
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trofl 
Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 1297
Location: Ames, IA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Miwco wrote: | | My rant might seem ignorant and offensive. |
Your posts have been. This is why these types of threads turn into flamewars. Even though we probably are on the "same side" (if you want to call it that), displaying your lack of knowledge and using that as a reason against Christianity is not going to keep this thread civil. I don't care what you believe in, just keep bad information out of the discussion.
But along with what wuLFe has said, I believe there is a problem with religions today trying to squelch progress in society. If each religion got its way, we'd all be the same, because anyone who's different is going to hell (according to scripture... what religion and their services are based off). But today, we know that we need to celebrate diversity if we don't want civil war because not everyone does or should believe the same thing. Yet time and time again, religious groups try to infiltrate the government. Shouldn't the rules of a religion apply only to its followers?
Also, talking with some of my Christian friends, they told me that sharing the idea that accepting and praising Christ is the only way to be saved/go to heaven is part of being a good Christian. Doesn't that imply not pushing your religion makes you a bad Christian? Here's a source, too
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AxeBoy34
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 74
Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| BenPierce wrote: | | thecaptainof wrote: | In answer to the topic title: soon, hopefully.
I'm fucking sick of people pushing their religion in my face. I have no interest in it, I don't believe in it. However... I am a firm believer in the terms 'live and let live' and 'to each his own'; I don't tell people what they believe is wrong so I expect the same courtesy in return. |
My thoughts exactly. I went to a Catholic school for nine years of my life, and one day, it all just got me thinking. None of it makes sense to me. It's just too fantastic. |
Look, I totally understand how you feel. I know that all the things in the Bible seem totally out of this world, but I don't care. But I understand why Atheists are Atheists. There really is no proof that God really exists, or that everything in the Bible is true. But once again, I DON'T CARE! And I don't believe in God and all of the teachings of the Bible just in case it's all true. I KNOW that it's all true. I'm a Lutheran, and no, that does not mean I worship Martin Luther, it means I follow his teachings. I worship God. I don't care how much Atheists push me to deny God's existence, whether it's at school or on ScoreHero, I'm going to believe. There. I'm finished.
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Jumboshrmp
Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 635
Location: South Florida
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Miwco wrote: |
Anyway you look at the bible or try to explain it, its still not all about love and peace  . God makes it very clear that he's jealous, angry and won't hesitate to punish you. |
I recall a few instances of God punishing people (example: the plagues),and I also remember God being decsribed as being "angry" when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit. But where did you get anything about him showing signs of jealousy? What reason would he have to be jealous of a human being?
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thecaptainof
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 7571
Location: ¯\(°_o)/¯
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| AxeBoy34 wrote: | | BenPierce wrote: | | thecaptainof wrote: | In answer to the topic title: soon, hopefully.
I'm fucking sick of people pushing their religion in my face. I have no interest in it, I don't believe in it. However... I am a firm believer in the terms 'live and let live' and 'to each his own'; I don't tell people what they believe is wrong so I expect the same courtesy in return. |
My thoughts exactly. I went to a Catholic school for nine years of my life, and one day, it all just got me thinking. None of it makes sense to me. It's just too fantastic. |
Look, I totally understand how you feel. I know that all the things in the Bible seem totally out of this world, but I don't care. But I understand why Atheists are Atheists. There really is no proof that God really exists, or that everything in the Bible is true. But once again, I DON'T CARE! And I don't believe in God and all of the teachings of the Bible just in case it's all true. I KNOW that it's all true. I'm a Lutheran, and no, that does not mean I worship Martin Luther, it means I follow his teachings. I worship God. I don't care how much Atheists push me to deny God's existence, whether it's at school or on ScoreHero, I'm going to believe. There. I'm finished. |
Wow, I hope that wasn't aimed at me.
Nobody's pushing you to believe or disbelieve anything at all. Seriously re-read what you quoted, and then your response, and see how way out of line that is.
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Caret-
Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 83
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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Wow nice discussion 
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Miwco
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Espoo, Finland
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| trofl wrote: | | Miwco wrote: | | My rant might seem ignorant and offensive. |
Your posts have been. This is why these types of threads turn into flamewars. Even though we probably are on the "same side" (if you want to call it that), displaying your lack of knowledge and using that as a reason against Christianity is not going to keep this thread civil. I don't care what you believe in, just keep bad information out of the discussion.
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Ouch dude. Lack of knowledge, and using it against Christians? Please point something out so I can redeem myself. I might not be the best writer, but I still hope people would understand what I'm trying to say. I don't mean that christianity is a bad religion or anything like that, I just want get some dialog. I just want people to think about stuff, and not just believe everything by default. When I say "Gawd is liek so crewl" I'm only giving you a new perspective of things. That doesn't mean he has to be that etc. I also totally understand the "don't try to convert me and I won't try to convert you and lets all just get along". But I still felt like I should open my mouth, though I'm getting second thoughts. |
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Miwco
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Espoo, Finland
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Jumboshrmp wrote: | | Miwco wrote: |
Anyway you look at the bible or try to explain it, its still not all about love and peace . God makes it very clear that he's jealous, angry and won't hesitate to punish you. |
I recall a few instances of God punishing people (example: the plagues),and I also remember God being decsribed as being "angry" when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit. But where did you get anything about him showing signs of jealousy? What reason would he have to be jealous of a human being? |
The LORD is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath. He takes revenge on all who oppose him and furiously destroys his enemies! The LORD is slow to get angry, but his power is great, and he never lets the guilty go unpunished. He displays his power in the whirlwind and the storm. The billowing clouds are the dust beneath his feet. At his command the oceans and rivers dry up, the lush pastures of Bashan and Carmel fade, and the green forests of Lebanon wilt. In his presence the mountains quake, and the hills melt away; the earth trembles, and its people are destroyed. Who can stand before his fierce anger? Who can survive his burning fury? His rage blazes forth like fire, and the mountains crumble to dust in his presence. The LORD is good. When trouble comes, he is a strong refuge. And he knows everyone who trusts in him. But he sweeps away his enemies in an overwhelming flood. He pursues his foes into the darkness of night. (Nahum 1:2-8 NLT)
That's just a quote from the old testament so I guess it's not really valid. I just remember reading that god got jealous when people believed in other gods. |
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Gizzal
Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Posts: 250
Location: Peoria, Illinois
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Miwco wrote: | | Jumboshrmp wrote: | | Miwco wrote: |
Anyway you look at the bible or try to explain it, its still not all about love and peace . God makes it very clear that he's jealous, angry and won't hesitate to punish you. |
I recall a few instances of God punishing people (example: the plagues),and I also remember God being decsribed as being "angry" when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit. But where did you get anything about him showing signs of jealousy? What reason would he have to be jealous of a human being? |
The LORD is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath. He takes revenge on all who oppose him and furiously destroys his enemies! The LORD is slow to get angry, but his power is great, and he never lets the guilty go unpunished. He displays his power in the whirlwind and the storm. The billowing clouds are the dust beneath his feet. At his command the oceans and rivers dry up, the lush pastures of Bashan and Carmel fade, and the green forests of Lebanon wilt. In his presence the mountains quake, and the hills melt away; the earth trembles, and its people are destroyed. Who can stand before his fierce anger? Who can survive his burning fury? His rage blazes forth like fire, and the mountains crumble to dust in his presence. The LORD is good. When trouble comes, he is a strong refuge. And he knows everyone who trusts in him. But he sweeps away his enemies in an overwhelming flood. He pursues his foes into the darkness of night. (Nahum 1:2-8 NLT)
That's just a quote from the old testament so I guess it's not really valid. I just remember reading that god got jealous when people believed in other gods. |
Can someone explain to me why the Old Testament is not valid? I always thought you were supposed to follow the entire book. |
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Ealasaid
Joined: 14 Nov 2006
Posts: 422
Location: Santa Clara, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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New to the thread, and just slogged through all 12 pages. Wow, very civil, this is awesome. Scorehero continues to amaze.
| trofl wrote: |
But along with what wuLFe has said, I believe there is a problem with religions today trying to squelch progress in society. If each religion got its way, we'd all be the same, because anyone who's different is going to hell (according to scripture... what religion and their services are based off). But today, we know that we need to celebrate diversity if we don't want civil war because not everyone does or should believe the same thing. Yet time and time again, religious groups try to infiltrate the government. Shouldn't the rules of a religion apply only to its followers? |
I think when you say "each religion," you only mean the ones that claim they're the One True Way. There are plenty of religions (most of the pagan ones, for example) which aren't out to convert the world, and plenty of them don't have scripture.
Just advocating for precision in writing.
Back to the OP's question, I don't think atheism/agnosticism will totally take over because there are new religions that are more adaptable, and there are branches of the older religions that are slowly adapting. Look at the Episcopalians, for example. I once met an Episcopalian who was an active homosexual, and they just appointed a female bishop, if memory serves. [/url]
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trofl
Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 1297
Location: Ames, IA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Miwco wrote: | | Ouch dude. Lack of knowledge, and using it against Christians? Please point something out so I can redeem myself. |
It's been pointed out... saying the Jews killed Jesus, saying that people thought the Earth was flat. It's bad information that just invites flames. You gotta check your facts before you go and say "Your religion is terrible and wrong" or people are going to think all of your arguments are silly (whether or not it is a fallacy to do so).
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trofl
Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 1297
Location: Ames, IA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Ealasaid wrote: | | I think when you say "each religion," you only mean the ones that claim they're the One True Way. There are plenty of religions (most of the pagan ones, for example) which aren't out to convert the world, and plenty of them don't have scripture. |
Ahh, yes, thanks for the clarification. Can't say I have anything against the religions you speak of. But like atheists and agnostics, they're not mainstream (in the US). Because they're not out to force people outside their belief to follow the rules of their system, I would definitely defend them too. That's really my beef with mainstream... ahh hell, I'll just call it what it is, the religious right. They want to take their beliefs and force it on others through manipulating the government. Anyone else hear what the former Surgeon General has been saying about being squelched on issues like stem cell research and homosexuality? That's what really grinds my gears... when ideology (faith) comes before science (fact... at least far more fact than what a book written two thousand years ago says).
edit: link
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Hackelmania13
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 1121
Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Gizzal wrote: | | Can someone explain to me why the Old Testament is not valid? I always thought you were supposed to follow the entire book. |
It's not, whoever keeps saying it is is completely and utterly WRONG.
Jesus dying on the cross set us free from the Old Testament LAW, not from the OT itself. Aka we can eat meat, and all that other stuff...it's completely valid.
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Anthony
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 659
Location: Cali
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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David Lynch sums up my view on religion:
"I don't think that people accept the fact that life doesn't make sense. I think it makes people terribly uncomfortable. It seems like religion and myth were invented against that, trying to make sense out of it."
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Miwco
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Espoo, Finland
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| trofl wrote: | | Miwco wrote: | | Ouch dude. Lack of knowledge, and using it against Christians? Please point something out so I can redeem myself. |
It's been pointed out... saying the Jews killed Jesus, saying that people thought the Earth was flat. It's bad information that just invites flames. You gotta check your facts before you go and say "Your religion is terrible and wrong" or people are going to think all of your arguments are silly (whether or not it is a fallacy to do so). |
There are some christians who believe jews killed jesus.
When the bible was written they believed that the earth was flat.
I never said your religion is terrible and wrong, but please prove me wrong. |
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