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eachann
Joined: 09 May 2006
Posts: 1340
Location: Michigan
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 Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:22 pm Post subject: there has to be a technique... |
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I have a recurring problem in multiple songs that I have been unable to fix right from the beginning. I simply cannot hit 4 notes going down the scale fast. This shows up at times in Texas Flood, Cowboys from Hell, Frankenstein, and others.
Frankenstein is a great example because I think this is the only thing keeping me from 5 starring it on hard.... there are several fast BYRG strings in the song and missing them most of the time keeps my multiplier down.
I can hit them occasionally but only maybe once out of 5 tries. I've tried using pulloffs, I've tried strumming faster, slower... I do alternate strumming up and down... I *think* i'm hitting the frets right but maybe going too fast or too slow. I don't know what the problem is.... I've mentioned this problem in other posts and I haven't really heard others complain about this particular problem so i'm thinking there must be some kind of technique that I'm just missing and maybe one of you who don't have any troubles with those kinds of note patterns can help me out. |
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Hellion42 
Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 641
Location: strapped into my Energon Axe
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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I don't hit those all that often, but I have the least trouble when I start on my ring finger, pull off to middle to index, then slide my index finger down to hit the last note. I can hit most of the 4-note descendings in Frankenstein that way, TF still gives me fits.
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emptyset 
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 2254
Location: State College / Elizabethtown, PA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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You might have already tried this, but leave your index finger on the green fret throughout the run and evenly alternate strum your way down. Your fingers might have been a little late to the frets, and if you only move fingers 2-4 and then lift them off, that might help you get the run. So instead of 4-3-2-1, it's 14-13-12-1. Not quite a pulloff but similar, and it works for me 99% of the time. Hope it helps.
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random
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: there has to be a technique... |
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| eachann wrote: | | I have a recurring problem in multiple songs that I have been unable to fix right from the beginning. I simply cannot hit 4 notes going down the scale fast. |
This has been my biggest problem as well. Even 3 quick notes in a downward scale can sometimes be trouble for me.
The first step is to realize what you're actually doing wrong. I used a vcr. My guess is that your strums are in time with the beat, BUT they aren't in time with your fretting. When I taped my play, I noticed that when I tried to play a quick B-Y-R-G, I'd almost always get B-Y-YR-G, meaning I wasn't lifting my ring finger (the finger that has the worst independent control) quite fast enough. If you don't have a problem with upward runs (where you aren't penalized for not lifting the previous finger) you're likely doing something similar.
Things to try:
1. using all downstrums for those runs. That causes a natural strum delay that helped my problem in many places. It might feel like you can't downstrum fast enough, but the timing in the game is quite actually forgiving, IF you've fretted the note correctly. I used to screw up the 4-note down runs of CFH a lot and this completely fixed it. This probably won't help TF though, it's too fast.
2. play it like a pull-off, but strum it. A little less motion required so you're less likely to beat your left hand to the note.
3. If you have one of the older guitars, get a newer one. I did this when mine broke and it made a significant difference, because the buttons were tighter.
4. turn on the crowd meter cheat and go play an easy level song. Then practice your runs where there aren't any notes.
Hope this helps |
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JHetfield0816
Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2230
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: there has to be a technique... |
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| random wrote: |
The first step is to realize what you're actually doing wrong. I used a vcr. My guess is that your strums are in time with the beat, BUT they aren't in time with your fretting. When I taped my play, I noticed that when I tried to play a quick B-Y-R-G, I'd almost always get B-Y-YR-G, meaning I wasn't lifting my ring finger (the finger that has the worst independent control) quite fast enough. If you don't have a problem with upward runs (where you aren't penalized for not lifting the previous finger) you're likely doing something similar.
Things to try:
1. using all downstrums for those runs. That causes a natural strum delay that helped my problem in many places. It might feel like you can't downstrum fast enough, but the timing in the game is quite actually forgiving, IF you've fretted the note correctly. I used to screw up the 4-note down runs of CFH a lot and this completely fixed it. This probably won't help TF though, it's too fast.
2. play it like a pull-off, but strum it. A little less motion required so you're less likely to beat your left hand to the note.
3. If you have one of the older guitars, get a newer one. I did this when mine broke and it made a significant difference, because the buttons were tighter.
4. turn on the crowd meter cheat and go play an easy level song. Then practice your runs where there aren't any notes.
Hope this helps |
Yeah, using a vcr...great suggestion!! My ps2 runs right through my vcr, I really don't know why I didnt think of recording my play before...that might be just what I need to improve more..thanks random!
Here's another suggestion...I'm not sure if this makes sense..but if you decide to do the 4 fast notes downwards as a PO, make sure you articulate each note that you pulloff...You might think that's impossible, but what I mean is...imagine that you're playing a real guitar (or stringed instrument) and you're grabbing (or plucking) the string with each finger that is pulling off in rhythm. This helps get the necessary left-hand articulation on scales going downward on real stringed instruments, and I found that it really helps in getting the rhythm for PO's in this game.
Also, as ridiculous as this sounds...if you're having problems with say...your ring finger moving independently, there are finger independence exercises you can do. Take your left wrist (palm facing the floor) and set it on your knee so that your left hand is loose in the air off of your knee (kind of hanging). Make a loose fist with your hand. Then, work on moving your fingers independently. First extend your index finger out, then bring it in..in a comfortable rhythm (the point is to make sure other fingers than the ones you're trying to move DON'T MOVE AT ALL or don't even feel like they "want" to move). Do the same with each finger (ring finger will be the hardest). Then try alternating, like...extend your ring finger out and bring it in, then index, middle..etc.etc. Try different patterns. Next, try it with 2 fingers at once. Try extending index and ring fingers out and bringing them in in a simliar fashion (don't move your middle or pinky while doing this...keep them in the fist)...then try it with your middle and pinky. Then alternate...i.e. index/ring to middle/pinky to middle/ring to index/pinky. If you eventually become comfortable so that you can do that really fast without your other fingers wanting to move (staying relaxed), then I really guarantee you won't have as many problems with pulloffs, and your chord passages will greatly improve (like on Cavement Rejoice). This is a violin exercise, but it works great for GH as well.
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"well I guess it's better than reapers and thingys"- Riyunoa
"The resistance that you fight physically in the gym and the resistance that you fight in life can only build a strong character." - Arnold |
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MetalMadness 
Joined: 11 May 2006
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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That's a really big help! I've never played guitar, and my fingers need to strengthen. Thanks for the tip.
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eachann
Joined: 09 May 2006
Posts: 1340
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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I just tried that exercise... lol, i'm glad nobody was watching I must've looked like a complete idiot , staring at my had doing all these goofy things 
Anyway... if I have my hand in a loose fist, it's easy to do with any finger... but if I open my hand lightly so that it's more like a claw I can't do it at all... every finger movement causes other fingers to move or to "tremble" as I try not to move them. Even moving my index finger which of course is the easiest still makes other fingers "want" to move.... putting them in a loose fist, there is enough "pressure" on them closing the fingers to counteract the muscles trying to open them, but if they are actually slightly open they move all over the place.
So will doing this exercise actually improve that situation or just show me what fingers are bad? Should I hold fingers in place if they want to move until my finger is used to moving independantly? Or just keep trying to move the fingers independantly without help? |
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JHetfield0816
Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2230
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| eachann wrote: | I just tried that exercise... lol, i'm glad nobody was watching I must've looked like a complete idiot , staring at my had doing all these goofy things
Anyway... if I have my hand in a loose fist, it's easy to do with any finger... but if I open my hand lightly so that it's more like a claw I can't do it at all... every finger movement causes other fingers to move or to "tremble" as I try not to move them. Even moving my index finger which of course is the easiest still makes other fingers "want" to move.... putting them in a loose fist, there is enough "pressure" on them closing the fingers to counteract the muscles trying to open them, but if they are actually slightly open they move all over the place.
So will doing this exercise actually improve that situation or just show me what fingers are bad? Should I hold fingers in place if they want to move until my finger is used to moving independantly? Or just keep trying to move the fingers independantly without help? |
First really..try to keep your hand loose somewhere in the position between the loose fist and the "claw" that you're talking about. It shouldn't really be too hard to do the exercise with your index, middle, and maybe even your pinky, but practice it anyway. Don't hold your other fingers still with your other hand, you should do the exercise without any help. If you feel your other fingers start to tremble or move, that means your brain is still unsure of the correct signals to send to get the appropriate finger to move. When this happens...slow down your repetitions until you don't feel the trembling or "unsureness"...then you can speed up until you start to feel unsure again. Then practice at that speed. So, naturally, doing this exercise slowly at first is the key. Doing this exercise with single fingers will still help, but the real challenge of the exercise is doing the double fingers by extending index/ring finger together...then doing middle/pinky, middle/ring, and then index/pinky. Once you get comfortable with those, then you can try going right away from index/ring to middle/pinky..try all sorts of combinations. If you try this now, you fingers probably won't feel independent enough to do it, so the key is to start with the simple exercises and start slow...and stay relaxed. Tension is the devil.
But whatever you do, don't hold your fingers still with your other hand. Let your fingers do the exercise by themselves..it's a mental exercise in a way. And believe me, if you practice this every day..even while you're watching TV or something, you really should see some results within a week or two. You'll just feel more comfortable switching between chords, using your pinky, and doing HO/PO..in general your hand will feel like it moves more freely than it did before. Hope this helps.
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"well I guess it's better than reapers and thingys"- Riyunoa
"The resistance that you fight physically in the gym and the resistance that you fight in life can only build a strong character." - Arnold |
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Ral
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 218
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| For the BYRG notes, I play the BYR notes in the RBYO position, and then shift down to get the green note. |
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dspoonrt
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 2449
Location: Columbus, OH
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Ral. What part of Cleveland are you from?
I'm living with my parents a little south of Akron for the summer.
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Check out my songs on GHTunes for GH:WT (Xbox 360):
"Power Surge," "Funk You," "Grindsaw Groove," and "DisorderlyConduct"
- all charted by dspoonrt
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Ral
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 218
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| A city called Mayfield Heights, that is about 20 minutes, south east of Cleveland. |
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dspoonrt
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 2449
Location: Columbus, OH
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:45 am Post subject: |
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That's cool. A Best Buy near me is having a GH tournament coming up (qualifiers this Saturday, finals next Saturday). It's probably over an hour's drive for you, but feel free to come down for it. If not, I'm going to easily own everyone and win the $50 giftcard. That's all right with me, but I'd like to some competition, too.
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Check out my songs on GHTunes for GH:WT (Xbox 360):
"Power Surge," "Funk You," "Grindsaw Groove," and "DisorderlyConduct"
- all charted by dspoonrt
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Shin
Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 204
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, JHetfield!
I'm gonna try that lots and lots! |
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Fly1ngV
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 1081
Location: Chicagoland Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| what i do on those kinds of notes is very simply do a motion similiar to rolling my wrist , only wit my fingers though, so what would happen is that my fingers would would flow into it. it's kinda hard to explain in words. also if you're having problems hitting those note because you are too fast and play on you fingertips (which i assume a good majority of the people here do), try doing it on your fingerprint area, or even better, towards your first knuckle, idk why it works for me, but in theory it should work for more people |
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JHetfield0816
Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2230
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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nice tip, Fly1ngV...i forgot about rolliing your wrist
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"well I guess it's better than reapers and thingys"- Riyunoa
"The resistance that you fight physically in the gym and the resistance that you fight in life can only build a strong character." - Arnold |
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