| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
b.vicious
Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 2075
Location: Internet
|
 Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:04 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| tma wrote: | Sure, but it's not "A Thing" in the sense that all men or women got together and voted on how to deal with people. It's just the particulars of that relationship.
Many people seem to talk about "The Friend Zone" as if it's some kind of female conspiracy, when really it's just part of the nature of relationships in general.
That attraction spark sometimes only happens during the early stage of getting to know someone - if it doesn't happen then, for whatever reason, the spark can go away if you get to know the person really well. That's just the nature of that particular "spark". If you've been in a relationship for longer than a year or two then you're probably familiar with that particular spark lessening, but you still stay in a relationship because the person is your best friend and you work together towards goals. But you generally need that spark to get things started, and if you've been friends with someone for a long time before you try dating them, the spark just might not happen, or be there at all.
Which, again, points to maturity, or rather, inexperience with relationships, as being the cause for all this angst.
Stop blaming the woman for not being interested in you that way (not having that spark).
Stop calling her boyfriend an asshole just because he triggered that spark and you didn't. I'm sure that 95% of these guys actually aren't assholes, and besides, maybe he's just an asshole to you because you keep undermining him and his relationship? Something to think about.
Stop assuming you know what's better for her than she does.
Stop assuming that you're actually that great a catch. If you harbour these sorts of feelings of resentment, and particularly if you let them come out in how you treat others (such as the "asshole" boyfriend) - you're not. You're not being a nice person, and all you're doing by whining about it is trying to paint yourself as a martyr. Stop it, and grow up. |
I agree. There are some points in there that are debatable but it's really not that big of a deal, it really just does boil down to maturity and lack of experience in dating. Rewind two or three years and I would not have agreed, but that's because I was immature, and had no self-confidence which was the real reason I was being put into the "friend zone". What gave me my self-confidence was being completely torn to shreds by my ex, then building off of knowing what I deserve in a relationship, followed by losing 40 lbs. After I did that, I became a much better more rounded person.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
tma 
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1414
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| b.vicious wrote: | | What gave me my self-confidence was being completely torn to shreds by my ex, then building off of knowing what I deserve in a relationship, followed by losing 40 lbs. After I did that, I became a much better more rounded person. |
While I certainly wouldn't recommend it to everyone, being ripped to shreds and emotionally battered by a partner can certainly open your eyes up very quickly to what should and shouldn't be part of a relationship. I can relate very directly to what you're saying there, I had a relationship that hurt me big time, and it ended up with my being alone for the next 5 years, by choice. I had to do a lot of soul searching to work out what really happened and what I would accept and wouldn't accept in a relationship after that.
The trick, of course, was getting over being bitter.
Nothing shocks the system into action like being bitten. Well, maybe except for sticking a knife into a power socket. ;) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PiemanLK
Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 4711
Location: /export/home
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tma wrote: | | The trick, of course, was getting over being bitter. |
What's the secret to that?
_________________
[quote=''Otend'']Id come up with a long post, but Pieman said what we are all thinking, as usual[/quote]
[quote=''youhas'']EDIT TO ADD: Hey, post #3000! Neat! I will eagerly anticipate my set of ScoreHero-branded steak knives within six to eight weeks.[/quote]
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tma
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1414
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| PiemanLK wrote: | | tma wrote: | | The trick, of course, was getting over being bitter. |
What's the secret to that? |
Realising there's more to life.
Not having "being in a relationship" on my list of requirements for happiness.
Getting heavily involved in nerdy hobbies like Guitar Hero. ;)
Not letting the actions of one person control how I perceive and react to every other person.
... But, truthfully, a lot of it was actually realising that I was clinically depressed (diagnosed), and going on medication (after years of trying other things like CBT and so forth). That helped the lows immensely, and the rest of the work on my self-confidence could be done without my own brain working against me. The bitterness tended to go away once my anger/depression loop started to ease off. But that's my journey. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
krisdaschwab912
Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 6567
Location: UW-Eau Claire
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tma wrote: |
Getting heavily involved in nerdy hobbies like Guitar Hero. ;)
... But, truthfully, a lot of it was actually realising that I was clinically depressed (diagnosed), and going on medication (after years of trying other things like CBT and so forth). That helped the lows immensely, and the rest of the work on my self-confidence could be done without my own brain working against me. The bitterness tended to go away once my anger/depression loop started to ease off. But that's my journey. |
See, my nerdy hobbies (Rock Band, listening to metal and all sorts of other stuff that very few of my friends have ever heard of, etc) has probably hurt me over the years (although that may have something to do with the fact that I have blasted Top 40 radio on multiple occasions).
And I saw a counselor at my university regarding my incapability to form romantic relationships with women on and off over the last two years, but it didn't really get very far. I was making some progress, but then I left for Finland after my second session with a new counselor.
_________________
krisdaschwab912's dream six-pack undergoing revision.
| PiemanLK, on krisdaschwab912's legendary dating skills wrote: | | I'd listen to him, he knows his way around with the ladies. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tma
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1414
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| krisdaschwab912 wrote: | | tma wrote: |
Getting heavily involved in nerdy hobbies like Guitar Hero. ;)
... But, truthfully, a lot of it was actually realising that I was clinically depressed (diagnosed), and going on medication (after years of trying other things like CBT and so forth). That helped the lows immensely, and the rest of the work on my self-confidence could be done without my own brain working against me. The bitterness tended to go away once my anger/depression loop started to ease off. But that's my journey. |
See, my nerdy hobbies (Rock Band, listening to metal and all sorts of other stuff that very few of my friends have ever heard of, etc) has probably hurt me over the years (although that may have something to do with the fact that I have blasted Top 40 radio on multiple occasions).
And I saw a counselor at my university regarding my incapability to form romantic relationships with women on and off over the last two years, but it didn't really get very far. I was making some progress, but then I left for Finland after my second session with a new counselor. |
Making peace with my own nerdiness was a bit part of my recovery, actually. I credit Wil Wheaton for helping me feel proud of the nerdy stuff I enjoyed, and approaching "being a nerd" with the right frame of mind. In other words, accepting all the good things about being "a nerd" (finding joy in nerdy stuff and wanting to share this joy) while rejecting the bad things (social stigma partly reinforced by my own attitude and lack of self-acceptance, having a chip on my shoulder about women not liking "nice guys like me", generally being an obnoxious smartarse). Love what you love. Don't be a dick (tm). Find others to share with (yes, they're out there). (Apparently ;) ).
I would say that if you see yourself as incapable of forming a romantic relationship, enough so that you sought counseling, then I would highly suggest trying it again. I would also approach counseling less with the view of that particular issue, and more with a holistic view about yourself - because I'm almost certain there's more to it than just not being able to form a relationship. By that I mean it's probably a symptom, not the cause. Caveat: I don't know you, of course, and anything I say may be completely off base - but I think I'm keeping it fairly general anyway. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
krisdaschwab912
Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 6567
Location: UW-Eau Claire
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tma wrote: |
Making peace with my own nerdiness was a bit part of my recovery, actually. I credit Wil Wheaton for helping me feel proud of the nerdy stuff I enjoyed, and approaching "being a nerd" with the right frame of mind. In other words, accepting all the good things about being "a nerd" (finding joy in nerdy stuff and wanting to share this joy) while rejecting the bad things (social stigma partly reinforced by my own attitude and lack of self-acceptance, having a chip on my shoulder about women not liking "nice guys like me", generally being an obnoxious smartarse). Love what you love. Don't be a dick (tm). Find others to share with (yes, they're out there). (Apparently ;) ).
I would say that if you see yourself as incapable of forming a romantic relationship, enough so that you sought counseling, then I would highly suggest trying it again. I would also approach counseling less with the view of that particular issue, and more with a holistic view about yourself - because I'm almost certain there's more to it than just not being able to form a relationship. By that I mean it's probably a symptom, not the cause. Caveat: I don't know you, of course, and anything I say may be completely off base - but I think I'm keeping it fairly general anyway. |
Well, I'll see how things go when I get back. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm 70 pounds lighter and coming back from an awesome Euro Trip (without all the sex and finding the girl of my dreams [although that is still technically possible], of course), and my situation at the university improved without me even being there since I was hired as the copy editor for my school paper (fucking finally; the previous people were terrible) and I am in talks to coach a high school basketball team in the area, plus I am now the general manager of my university's student radio station. So now I can do...pretty much whatever I want. For example, on September 12 (which incidentally happens to be my birthday, hence the 912), we're having the big club signup, and we get to be the DJs for it. And my set is going to be awesome. On top of all this, I'm basically the go-to guy at the front desk of my residence hall to work as many hours as I want (I basically get paid to listen to music and watch sports on my computer, and once in a while either sell something or open the door for someone late at night).
So if I have all this going for me and I'm still not happy, then yeah, I'll go back to counseling. This is the first time in my life where I have so many opportunities to do pretty much whatever I want and still have it not only be relevant to a future career, but get paid a pretty good chunk of money while doing it. And money can't buy me happiness...but it can buy me more Euro Trips, which makes me happy.
_________________
krisdaschwab912's dream six-pack undergoing revision.
| PiemanLK, on krisdaschwab912's legendary dating skills wrote: | | I'd listen to him, he knows his way around with the ladies. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
krisdaschwab912
Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 6567
Location: UW-Eau Claire
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tma wrote: |
Making peace with my own nerdiness was a bit part of my recovery, actually. I credit Wil Wheaton for helping me feel proud of the nerdy stuff I enjoyed, and approaching "being a nerd" with the right frame of mind. In other words, accepting all the good things about being "a nerd" (finding joy in nerdy stuff and wanting to share this joy) while rejecting the bad things (social stigma partly reinforced by my own attitude and lack of self-acceptance, having a chip on my shoulder about women not liking "nice guys like me", generally being an obnoxious smartarse). Love what you love. Don't be a dick (tm). Find others to share with (yes, they're out there). (Apparently ;) ).
I would say that if you see yourself as incapable of forming a romantic relationship, enough so that you sought counseling, then I would highly suggest trying it again. I would also approach counseling less with the view of that particular issue, and more with a holistic view about yourself - because I'm almost certain there's more to it than just not being able to form a relationship. By that I mean it's probably a symptom, not the cause. Caveat: I don't know you, of course, and anything I say may be completely off base - but I think I'm keeping it fairly general anyway. |
Well, I'll see how things go when I get back. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm 70 pounds lighter and coming back from an awesome Euro Trip (without all the sex and finding the girl of my dreams [although that is still technically possible], of course), and my situation at the university improved without me even being there since I was hired as the copy editor for my school paper (fucking finally; the previous people were terrible) and I am in talks to coach a high school basketball team in the area, plus I am now the general manager of my university's student radio station. So now I can do...pretty much whatever I want. For example, on September 12 (which incidentally happens to be my birthday, hence the 912), we're having the big club signup, and we get to be the DJs for it. And my set is going to be awesome. On top of all this, I'm basically the go-to guy at the front desk of my residence hall to work as many hours as I want (I basically get paid to listen to music and watch sports on my computer, and once in a while either sell something or open the door for someone late at night).
So if I have all this going for me and I'm still not happy, then yeah, I'll go back to counseling. This is the first time in my life where I have so many opportunities to do pretty much whatever I want and still have it not only be relevant to a future career, but get paid a pretty good chunk of money while doing it. And money can't buy me happiness...but it can buy me more Euro Trips, which makes me happy.
_________________
krisdaschwab912's dream six-pack undergoing revision.
| PiemanLK, on krisdaschwab912's legendary dating skills wrote: | | I'd listen to him, he knows his way around with the ladies. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PiemanLK
Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 4711
Location: /export/home
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tma wrote: | | ... But, truthfully, a lot of it was actually realising that I was clinically depressed (diagnosed), and going on medication (after years of trying other things like CBT and so forth). That helped the lows immensely, and the rest of the work on my self-confidence could be done without my own brain working against me. The bitterness tended to go away once my anger/depression loop started to ease off. But that's my journey. |
Medication didn't help me at all. It just depressed me more because I figured nothing would ever work and I was screwed.
_________________
[quote=''Otend'']Id come up with a long post, but Pieman said what we are all thinking, as usual[/quote]
[quote=''youhas'']EDIT TO ADD: Hey, post #3000! Neat! I will eagerly anticipate my set of ScoreHero-branded steak knives within six to eight weeks.[/quote]
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tma
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1414
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| PiemanLK wrote: | | tma wrote: | | ... But, truthfully, a lot of it was actually realising that I was clinically depressed (diagnosed), and going on medication (after years of trying other things like CBT and so forth). That helped the lows immensely, and the rest of the work on my self-confidence could be done without my own brain working against me. The bitterness tended to go away once my anger/depression loop started to ease off. But that's my journey. |
Medication didn't help me at all. It just depressed me more because I figured nothing would ever work and I was screwed. |
Medication is only one part of the puzzle. Exercise is another (I don't do anywhere near enough, but when I do it certainly lifts my mood). Other therapies such as CBT or Mindfulness are part of it too. Medication generally won't fix depression all by itself. I think people have the impression that it's a "happy pill", but it's more complicated than that.
From my own experience, I needed to go through about 4 or 5 different medications before I found one that was effective and didn't result in untenable side effects. Medication can also take some time to kick in, and the initial period on them can be a bit .... weird. In my case (and other people I know have echoed this), it's a feeling of being emotionless. This is temporary though as the brain adjusts. YMMV. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tma
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1414
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| krisdaschwab912 wrote: | Well, I'll see how things go when I get back. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm 70 pounds lighter and coming back from an awesome Euro Trip (without all the sex and finding the girl of my dreams [although that is still technically possible], of course), and my situation at the university improved without me even being there since I was hired as the copy editor for my school paper (fucking finally; the previous people were terrible) and I am in talks to coach a high school basketball team in the area, plus I am now the general manager of my university's student radio station. So now I can do...pretty much whatever I want. For example, on September 12 (which incidentally happens to be my birthday, hence the 912), we're having the big club signup, and we get to be the DJs for it. And my set is going to be awesome. On top of all this, I'm basically the go-to guy at the front desk of my residence hall to work as many hours as I want (I basically get paid to listen to music and watch sports on my computer, and once in a while either sell something or open the door for someone late at night).
So if I have all this going for me and I'm still not happy, then yeah, I'll go back to counseling. This is the first time in my life where I have so many opportunities to do pretty much whatever I want and still have it not only be relevant to a future career, but get paid a pretty good chunk of money while doing it. And money can't buy me happiness...but it can buy me more Euro Trips, which makes me happy. |
This all sounds really positive, and it seems you've got everything going for you at the moment. I'm glad there's so much going right for you! This has to be doing wonders for your confidence, and that'll put you in a great place for meeting someone. Just don't expect it to happen with everyone you meet though. 
Most of the relationships I've had started when I wasn't actually looking for one. If being in a relationship is secondary to your happiness overall, I think that makes you much more attractive, generally. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
youhas
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 3015
Location: Santa Clara, CA
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tma wrote: | | I think people have the impression that it's a "happy pill", but it's more complicated than that. |
Heh - yes, that's about right. I lucked out that the first medication I tried - Wellbutrin - had the effects I was looking for, but it wasn't so much a happy pill as someone installing a giant slab of plexiglass in the middle of a mental crevasse. So I would be tumbling down the mountainside, in uncontrollable free-fall, and thwock! - find myself somehow not tumbling down to the bottom of the pit of despair for a change. An excellent improvement, although other ancillary factors - "hey, is there any way I could, like, not tumble the mountain in the first place?" - involved a lot of outside, non-drug-related work.
(I'm off the meds now, and am generally in a fantastically happier place. I'm not sure that "every twelve years, I reboot myself and rewrite my psyche from the ground up" is necessarily advice I'd recommend to anyone. But every time I do so, I appear to become a more awesome person, so hey, it works for me; I'll live with it.  )
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tma
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1414
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| youhas wrote: | | tma wrote: | | I think people have the impression that it's a "happy pill", but it's more complicated than that. |
Heh - yes, that's about right. I lucked out that the first medication I tried - Wellbutrin - had the effects I was looking for, but it wasn't so much a happy pill as someone installing a giant slab of plexiglass in the middle of a mental crevasse. So I would be tumbling down the mountainside, in uncontrollable free-fall, and thwock! - find myself somehow not tumbling down to the bottom of the pit of despair for a change. An excellent improvement, although other ancillary factors - "hey, is there any way I could, like, not tumble the mountain in the first place?" - involved a lot of outside, non-drug-related work.
(I'm off the meds now, and am generally in a fantastically happier place. I'm not sure that "every twelve years, I reboot myself and rewrite my psyche from the ground up" is necessarily advice I'd recommend to anyone. But every time I do so, I appear to become a more awesome person, so hey, it works for me; I'll live with it. ) |
The tumbling down the mountainside metaphor fairly accurately describes my experience too. When I describe my mood problems, I say that normal people have a range of emotion going from happy to sad, and my range is from neutral/"meh" to "I want to die". The medication brought that range back within normal, for the most part, although I still have lows but they are not as severe and don't last as long.
I'd been on one medication for a while and things were better, and I came off them and thought everything was fine, but then I relapsed. I've been on a new medication for a while now, and it's likely that I'll be on them pretty much indefinitely. I'm at peace with it; my life is better on meds than off. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
krisdaschwab912
Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 6567
Location: UW-Eau Claire
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tma wrote: |
This all sounds really positive, and it seems you've got everything going for you at the moment. I'm glad there's so much going right for you! This has to be doing wonders for your confidence, and that'll put you in a great place for meeting someone. Just don't expect it to happen with everyone you meet though.
Most of the relationships I've had started when I wasn't actually looking for one. If being in a relationship is secondary to your happiness overall, I think that makes you much more attractive, generally. |
Well, I established a couple of great connections while at Wacken. I mean sure, it's a festival. But it's the first positive contact I've had with women who haven't hosted me via CouchSurfing (although those experiences have generally been quite positive) since my brief relationship in March. I've always had major issues in approaching women I don't know, for any reason, but that didn't seem to be a problem here. It gives me hope for when I return home in two weeks.
_________________
krisdaschwab912's dream six-pack undergoing revision.
| PiemanLK, on krisdaschwab912's legendary dating skills wrote: | | I'd listen to him, he knows his way around with the ladies. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Davers
Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 4619
Location: In a van down by the river
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I hate the term "friendzoned" but I feel like I might know a little bit more about it now. I'm a bit frustrated as well at the moment. I've been talking to this girl for over a month now. I've expressed my interest in dating her. She was with another guy at the time (I know sounds bad, but keep reading), but her and her boyfriend were on bad terms and the fact that it had lasted this long is beyond anyone's imagination. Seriously, she had been talking about breaking up with him for a very long time.
Anyways, she breaks up with the guy. I console her because she is still hurt by the breakup since it was a 3 year relationship. A few weeks pass and we are cuddling, holding hands but I never once kissed her. I didn't want to take it that far because I knew she was still very upset. She tells me she's going to need time to heal, yada yada yada, before she can date again and she tells me she is interested in me being a potential person to date (which is obvious at this point).
So here I am, 4 weeks after the breakup, still getting the "I need time to heal but let's still cuddle routine" when all of a sudden she tells me she's going on a date with this guy from work. Have to say I was pretty jealous and mad and I told her how I felt. This was two days ago. Today I get a long text from her telling me how she doesn't feel the same way towards me like I do to her and that I'm a really good friend to talk to and all that.
So yeah, a little disappointed that I let myself get to this stage. I was going to post this in the rant thread, but I guess this thread feels more appropriate. Again, I hate this term but, wow, I feel like I made it here and it sucks. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Copyright © 2006-2024 ScoreHero, LLC
|
Powered by phpBB
|
![Inbox [ Login ]](templates/subSilver/images/icon_mini_message.gif){kind=icon}
Inbox [ Login ]
Search
Memberlist
Profile
Log in
