Suggestion for Season 3?

[HylianHero]

Why not hold a preliminary week before the main week? Combine EVERYBODY's scores into one ranking, so you can get a general idea of where people actually belong. I know a few people misplaced themselves into Leagues, and this seems like it could greatly decrease the chance that this issue would happen again.

The only problem I can see with this is one person holding about 300 scores...but maybe that could be divvied up between 2 or 3 people?
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-- My Kaizo Mario (savestate/rewind-less!) LP - through Level 3!

[HylianHero]

Why not hold a preliminary week before the main week? Combine EVERYBODY's scores into one ranking, so you can get a general idea of where people actually belong. I know a few people misplaced themselves into Leagues, and this seems like it could greatly decrease the chance that this issue would happen again.

The only problem I can see with this is one person holding about 300 scores...but maybe that could be divvied up between 2 or 3 people?
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-- My Kaizo Mario (savestate/rewind-less!) LP - through Level 3!

[bmintern]

I said no, for a few reasons:

1. What difficulty level would the songs be on? I think the best players would get bored playing Medium or even Hard, and probably some of the League B and C people would have a lot of trouble on Expert.

2. If the difficulty level chosen is Hard, it probably won't help much at all to distinguish those in League AA or AAA. I think it would help separate A, B, and C, but I don't think that's really an issue anyways.

3. I think a week is too long. I mean, if the songs have no bearing on anything except what league you are in, who is really going to try to play a song over and over to perfect it? I think it just extends the season for very little benefit.


How's this for an idea? What if the leagues all played the same songs? I don't know if this affects things negatively in any way, but it would allow the possibility that if someone is getting thoroughly demolished, they would be able to drop down to a lower league somewhat easily. If someone is dominating their league, they could be bumped up without having to lose points. I guess there would be some other issues with this idea, but this is just an example of something that I would prefer over a preliminary week.

All in all, I don't see it as a huge problem. What % of participants have needed to change leagues? Is it enough to warrant making a change that affects everyone?

[bmintern]

I said no, for a few reasons:

1. What difficulty level would the songs be on? I think the best players would get bored playing Medium or even Hard, and probably some of the League B and C people would have a lot of trouble on Expert.

2. If the difficulty level chosen is Hard, it probably won't help much at all to distinguish those in League AA or AAA. I think it would help separate A, B, and C, but I don't think that's really an issue anyways.

3. I think a week is too long. I mean, if the songs have no bearing on anything except what league you are in, who is really going to try to play a song over and over to perfect it? I think it just extends the season for very little benefit.


How's this for an idea? What if the leagues all played the same songs? I don't know if this affects things negatively in any way, but it would allow the possibility that if someone is getting thoroughly demolished, they would be able to drop down to a lower league somewhat easily. If someone is dominating their league, they could be bumped up without having to lose points. I guess there would be some other issues with this idea, but this is just an example of something that I would prefer over a preliminary week.

All in all, I don't see it as a huge problem. What % of participants have needed to change leagues? Is it enough to warrant making a change that affects everyone?

[pvhawkeye08]

im new to scorehero, and when i signed up i signed up for AA. got dead last (not by TOO much) but at least i may have stayed in the running abit if i signed up for league A instead. i had not much of a clue how well each person was in AA or A.. or B.. or C...... good for new people otherwise it may just be a waste of time or something i dont know.. good idea though

[pvhawkeye08]

im new to scorehero, and when i signed up i signed up for AA. got dead last (not by TOO much) but at least i may have stayed in the running abit if i signed up for league A instead. i had not much of a clue how well each person was in AA or A.. or B.. or C...... good for new people otherwise it may just be a waste of time or something i dont know.. good idea though

[RiseOfAsh]

Something like seeding or commish scouting sounds like the kind of thing you are approaching with your idea. Getting an early idea of who belongs where.

Perhaps just player mobility? Since we have more people, we can shift more up or down after playoffs (rather than just 2 or 3), using the system already in place to a greater extent.
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[RiseOfAsh]

Something like seeding or commish scouting sounds like the kind of thing you are approaching with your idea. Getting an early idea of who belongs where.

Perhaps just player mobility? Since we have more people, we can shift more up or down after playoffs (rather than just 2 or 3), using the system already in place to a greater extent.
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[rabies]

Well, it is my belief that 90% (or more) of signups for season 2 will be season 1 players....and for those players, there is no need for a pre-lim round..as their abilities will be well documented from Season 1.

We are still kicking around ideas for new participants in season 2. We'll see how many there are first. A pre-lim round for those folks would not be out of the question.

[rabies]

Well, it is my belief that 90% (or more) of signups for season 2 will be season 1 players....and for those players, there is no need for a pre-lim round..as their abilities will be well documented from Season 1.

We are still kicking around ideas for new participants in season 2. We'll see how many there are first. A pre-lim round for those folks would not be out of the question.

[jrod]

I say no because the songs chosen may be the players worst songs. The socres they get might not accurately represent their skill level, and thus could be placed in the wrong league. I say it's good the way it is right now.
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-Moose

[jrod]

I say no because the songs chosen may be the players worst songs. The socres they get might not accurately represent their skill level, and thus could be placed in the wrong league. I say it's good the way it is right now.
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-Moose

[Emptyeye]

I have to say no too, more or less for reasons already mentioned. For this to work, you need to find ONE song on ONE level that serves as an accurate measure of skill for EVERYONE, which is just about impossible. As a couple of arbitrary examples (Not saying these would necessarily be candidate songs for such a task; they're just examples of the problems you'd encounter with trying to pick such a song), Jordan on Expert wouldn't work because, except for the absolute best of the best, you're going to have a huge glut of people that fail it and may be placed inaccurately as a result. Likewise, using Radium Eyes on Hard wouldn't work either, because you're going to have a huge bunch of people at or near the top with FCs whose actual skill levels are wildly different from one another.

The idea itself isn't bad, but I fear that there's no catch-all song that will determine the obvious best players AND accurately seperate everyone else into their proper brackets.

[Emptyeye]

I have to say no too, more or less for reasons already mentioned. For this to work, you need to find ONE song on ONE level that serves as an accurate measure of skill for EVERYONE, which is just about impossible. As a couple of arbitrary examples (Not saying these would necessarily be candidate songs for such a task; they're just examples of the problems you'd encounter with trying to pick such a song), Jordan on Expert wouldn't work because, except for the absolute best of the best, you're going to have a huge glut of people that fail it and may be placed inaccurately as a result. Likewise, using Radium Eyes on Hard wouldn't work either, because you're going to have a huge bunch of people at or near the top with FCs whose actual skill levels are wildly different from one another.

The idea itself isn't bad, but I fear that there's no catch-all song that will determine the obvious best players AND accurately seperate everyone else into their proper brackets.

[Ashes2Ashes]

What if you have a system like a list of songs, one for each division of the league, and new players can play thrugh the ones they think they can pass and submit scores on them. Then based on how well they do on those songs they can be placed into an appropriate league.

Of course this could have it's problems as well, but it would be a better(?) alternative to the OP's idea.
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<3 Guitar Hero

[Ashes2Ashes]

What if you have a system like a list of songs, one for each division of the league, and new players can play thrugh the ones they think they can pass and submit scores on them. Then based on how well they do on those songs they can be placed into an appropriate league.

Of course this could have it's problems as well, but it would be a better(?) alternative to the OP's idea.
_________________

A girl on teh internets? NO WAI!!!
<3 Guitar Hero

[TGizz]

Could we just go by rankings? Like anyone ranked 1-100 on expert is in AAA, 101-300 in AA, 301-whatever in A and so on? Then for hard, we could do the same and have BBB, BB and B leagues? Hmm, maybe not. If someone's new to the site, their rank would be low... Nevermind.
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[TGizz]

Could we just go by rankings? Like anyone ranked 1-100 on expert is in AAA, 101-300 in AA, 301-whatever in A and so on? Then for hard, we could do the same and have BBB, BB and B leagues? Hmm, maybe not. If someone's new to the site, their rank would be low... Nevermind.
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[smokyprogg]

[smokyprogg]

[TGizz]

Yeah, I figured as much. Just threw it out there.
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[TGizz]

Yeah, I figured as much. Just threw it out there.
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[byoon]

Here's my suggestion and I can't find any significant flaws in it. It is essentially the same as Hylian's idea except with a few changes.

Hold a "pre-season" week where everyone interested plays the same four songs within a one week time period. I don't think the issue is really with the B and C league players but if deemed necessary, the songs can be played on hard and medium respectively. All of these scores will be submitted and compiled as usual. Based on the number of scores submitted, the players can be divided equally into appropriate divisions (A,AA,AAA).

To challenge bmintern's concern about the songs having no bearing, you can have the pre-season actually be worth something. One probable idea is to score and reward points as usual except after completed, cut the points rewarded in half or some other value so that people will actually try and those that take the league seriously will play during the preseason to gain an edge.

To challenge jrod's concern about the songs being the players worst songs, one or two things can happen, or both. One is for there to be two weeks of preseason so that a total of 8 songs are played, further preventing the unlucky draw. This will allow for more accurate placement, more incentive, and well, pretty much nullifys that issue because if you have 8 randomized songs that are giving you trouble in the difficulty, you should consider being in a lower difficulty. You may ask, what if we get songs like Jordan, Six, Misirlou, PBF, etc as the 8 songs. Well, that's where the second thing comes in, where just for pre-season, instead of completely randomized songs, have the songs be chosen randomly but if there is an obvious imbalance (Like as stated above or getting Mr Fix It, Yes We Can, Heart-Shaped Box, etc) then the administrators can repick accordingly. The only issue is that two weeks may be too long but we already only have a 4-week season, I don't think 6 weeks is very long at all and you are still earning points during pre-season. Also, it will further allow the people that deserve playoff spots to obtain them since the rankings will be more accurate at the end of the season.

Until a prize is actually included for winning a season (which anything of value will never actually be implemented until there is some method of proving you scored what you really did), I don't see much flaw with this method. There shouldn't be people that will try to purposely place themselves in an easier division because there's no point to, really. However, some players feel that they are fine where they belong when they truly belong in a lower or higher division so some method must be im plemented to keep things competitive in a fair manner. It really is no fun when, say, you get 98% of the notes on a fairly hard song with a good SP path only to find that you get last place on the song because everyone in your division is superior to you.

[byoon]

Here's my suggestion and I can't find any significant flaws in it. It is essentially the same as Hylian's idea except with a few changes.

Hold a "pre-season" week where everyone interested plays the same four songs within a one week time period. I don't think the issue is really with the B and C league players but if deemed necessary, the songs can be played on hard and medium respectively. All of these scores will be submitted and compiled as usual. Based on the number of scores submitted, the players can be divided equally into appropriate divisions (A,AA,AAA).

To challenge bmintern's concern about the songs having no bearing, you can have the pre-season actually be worth something. One probable idea is to score and reward points as usual except after completed, cut the points rewarded in half or some other value so that people will actually try and those that take the league seriously will play during the preseason to gain an edge.

To challenge jrod's concern about the songs being the players worst songs, one or two things can happen, or both. One is for there to be two weeks of preseason so that a total of 8 songs are played, further preventing the unlucky draw. This will allow for more accurate placement, more incentive, and well, pretty much nullifys that issue because if you have 8 randomized songs that are giving you trouble in the difficulty, you should consider being in a lower difficulty. You may ask, what if we get songs like Jordan, Six, Misirlou, PBF, etc as the 8 songs. Well, that's where the second thing comes in, where just for pre-season, instead of completely randomized songs, have the songs be chosen randomly but if there is an obvious imbalance (Like as stated above or getting Mr Fix It, Yes We Can, Heart-Shaped Box, etc) then the administrators can repick accordingly. The only issue is that two weeks may be too long but we already only have a 4-week season, I don't think 6 weeks is very long at all and you are still earning points during pre-season. Also, it will further allow the people that deserve playoff spots to obtain them since the rankings will be more accurate at the end of the season.

Until a prize is actually included for winning a season (which anything of value will never actually be implemented until there is some method of proving you scored what you really did), I don't see much flaw with this method. There shouldn't be people that will try to purposely place themselves in an easier division because there's no point to, really. However, some players feel that they are fine where they belong when they truly belong in a lower or higher division so some method must be im plemented to keep things competitive in a fair manner. It really is no fun when, say, you get 98% of the notes on a fairly hard song with a good SP path only to find that you get last place on the song because everyone in your division is superior to you.

[RocketMan]

I don't think that there is any "good" way of placement. I think that after this season, there should be enough info on each person, that if they try to get into an "easier" division that enough people might recognize them...and be able to say something.

About all you can really do is...what they did for the A league, and divide it up after the first week. If you try to sandbag...you might end up being on the bottom of A2, thus giving yourself a disadvantage from the start. In the smaller leagues (B and C)...the winner, or maybe top 2, automatically get bumped up to the next higher league the following season. When you have so many people playing, at such a variety of skill levels, I just don't think that there is any "fair" way to accomplish this. Also, I just don't think that a "pre-season" would make any difference. If you are still going to be giving out points...may as well just add another week onto the season. UNLESS...you could have a "Pre-season" of a week or 2 that would NOT give any points. That way anybody coming into this "New" would be able to play and see where they rank. ALSO, it would give the people playing both GH1 and GH2 leagues no overlap in seasons. As the "pre-season" would be running during the others "playoffs" And...if they don't make the playoffs, or get knocked out early, it would give them a week (or whatever) to go in and try to improve their skills outside of league pressure. ???

I dunno. We (or at least I) are in this for fun!!! And...in direct cometition, to try and better our skills and points. I hope this made some kind of sence!!!
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[RocketMan]

I don't think that there is any "good" way of placement. I think that after this season, there should be enough info on each person, that if they try to get into an "easier" division that enough people might recognize them...and be able to say something.

About all you can really do is...what they did for the A league, and divide it up after the first week. If you try to sandbag...you might end up being on the bottom of A2, thus giving yourself a disadvantage from the start. In the smaller leagues (B and C)...the winner, or maybe top 2, automatically get bumped up to the next higher league the following season. When you have so many people playing, at such a variety of skill levels, I just don't think that there is any "fair" way to accomplish this. Also, I just don't think that a "pre-season" would make any difference. If you are still going to be giving out points...may as well just add another week onto the season. UNLESS...you could have a "Pre-season" of a week or 2 that would NOT give any points. That way anybody coming into this "New" would be able to play and see where they rank. ALSO, it would give the people playing both GH1 and GH2 leagues no overlap in seasons. As the "pre-season" would be running during the others "playoffs" And...if they don't make the playoffs, or get knocked out early, it would give them a week (or whatever) to go in and try to improve their skills outside of league pressure. ???

I dunno. We (or at least I) are in this for fun!!! And...in direct cometition, to try and better our skills and points. I hope this made some kind of sence!!!
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My Progress Journal

[Deschain]

Wow, I would call concept-thief on Hylian, but I doubt he would intentionally do so. Here's my two cents from a while back.

[Deschain]

Wow, I would call concept-thief on Hylian, but I doubt he would intentionally do so. Here's my two cents from a while back.

[njv232]

I don't mean to bitch or anything, but I guess what I will say will be perceived as just that. C league is very competitive between like 5 guys. I would venture to say at least three of them do not belong in our league. I don't know how we could remedy the problem. I mean you could blow your test to get in a lower league if we made everyone play a song on a certain difficulty. I mean if you wanted to get put in whatever league you wanted you could do it no matter what they would require.

I just get sick of playing knowing I might get 10th, if I am lucky because a lot of players hold back their true ability. What I think might be fun is to automatically move the top 2 from each league up to the next league. like split all the difficulties as they have expert. It would take a while to get people where they belong, but eventually it would be weeks that are decided by 300 points versus 30,000

[njv232]

I don't mean to bitch or anything, but I guess what I will say will be perceived as just that. C league is very competitive between like 5 guys. I would venture to say at least three of them do not belong in our league. I don't know how we could remedy the problem. I mean you could blow your test to get in a lower league if we made everyone play a song on a certain difficulty. I mean if you wanted to get put in whatever league you wanted you could do it no matter what they would require.

I just get sick of playing knowing I might get 10th, if I am lucky because a lot of players hold back their true ability. What I think might be fun is to automatically move the top 2 from each league up to the next league. like split all the difficulties as they have expert. It would take a while to get people where they belong, but eventually it would be weeks that are decided by 300 points versus 30,000