View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
bh0ukk
Joined: 10 Jun 2006 Posts: 20
|
Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:25 pm Post subject: GHWT On-disc FreeForms Thread *almost* COMPLETED |
|
|
Please if you want to talk/argue or whatever the word, about FFs, do it in another thread.
This thread is for figuring out FFs. (Paths are welcomed too)
Please contribute if you can.
Feel The Pain => no FF.
Overkill => C# D# F F# G# Bb (works only in hard and expert)
No Sleep Till Brooklin => D# E# F# G# A# B C#
Do It Again => G A Bb C D Eb F
Ramblin' Man => D# F G G# Bb C C#
Up Around The Bend => no FF.
About A Girl => Eb F Gb Ab Bb C Db
The One I Love => E F# G A B D D#
You're Gonna Say Yeah! => C D E F G A Bb
What I've Done => broken ?
Scream Aim Fire => F G# Bb C# D#
Mr. Crowley => broken ?
Crazy Train => C# D E F# G# A B
Freak On A Leash => no FF.
Prisoner Of Society => G A Bb C D E
Stillborn => no FF.
Trapped Under Ice => broken ?
Parabola => D E G A B (don't work in easy and beginner)
Schism => C D E F G A B and D Eb F G A Bb C for the last one (works only in hard and expert)
Vicarious => D E F G A Bb C
Some Might Say => D# F G G# A# C D
Beautiful Disaster => no FF.
Are You Gonna Go My Way => E F# G# A B C# D#
Dammit => kinda hard to explain and i'm not 100% sure... think13 ?
Eye Of The Tiger => D Eb F G Bb C
Hey Man, Nice Shot => no FF.
Hotel California => D E F# G A B C# (works only in expert)
The Joker => no FF.
Love Removal Machine => D E F# G A B C
Hot For Teacher => no FF.
Santeria => E F# G# A B C# D#
Obstacle 1 => no FF
Mountain Song => D E F# G A B C#
Today => Eb F G Bb
Rebel Yell => C# D E F# G A B
On The Road Again => E F# G# A B C# D#
Heartbreaker => C# D# F G G# Bb C
Band On The Run => C D E F# G A B
Stranglehold => D E G A C (works only in expert)
Love Me Two Times => E G A Bb B D
Rooftops => D E F# G A B C
Pretty Vacant => no FF.
Monsoon => D# C# B
Aggro => 1st FF: C# D E F# G# B, 2nd FF: C# D D# E F# (don't work in easy)
The Middle => D E F# G A B C#
Everlong => C# D E F# G A B
Assassin => D E F G A Bb C#
Misery Business => C D# F G Ab Bb
Go Your Own Way => C D E F G A Bb
Hollywood Nights => D E F# G# A B C#
Lazy Eye => D# E F# G# B
Love Spreads => E F G A Bb C D
Nuvole E Lenzuola => no FF.
Weapon Of Choice => D Eb F G Ab Bb C
La Bamba => C D E F G A B
Spiderwebs => no FF.
American Woman => D E F# G# A B
Sweet Home Alabama => D E F# G A B C (don't work in easy)
The Wind Cries Mary => D E F G A Bb C (don't work in easy)
Purple Haze => D# F F# Bb C#
Float On => F F# G# A# C#
Hail To The Freaks => no FF.
Vinternoll2 => broken ?
Soul Doubt => D# E F# G# A B C#
Too Much, Too Young, Too Fast => D E F# G# A B C#
Kick Out The Jams => D E G A B
The Kill => no FF.
Our Truth => D# E F# G A B C
Escuela De Calore => E F# G A B C# D
Demolition Man => 1st FF: D E F# G G# A B, 2nd FF: D D# E G A C (don't work in easy)
Livin On A Prayer => D E F# G A B C
One Way Or Another => E F# G# A B C#
Shiver => C# D# E G B
Antisocial => no FF.
Re-Education Through Labor => no FF.
B.Y.O.B. => C# D# E F# G# A
L'Via L'Viaquez => no FF.
Beat It => Bb G# F# F D# C#
One Armed Scissor => no FF.
Toy Boy => no FF.
Good God => F G# A# B C D Eb
Never Too Late => D F G A# C
Pull Me Under => 1st & 2nd FF: E F# G A B C D, 3rd FF: E G A B D (expert only)
Last edited by bh0ukk on Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:08 pm; edited 16 times in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bclare
Joined: 21 Jun 2008 Posts: 6048 Location: Boston
|
Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This seems like it would be a great resource if it can get filled in. Not great for me since I can't hit any particular note anyway, but still it's great info to have. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
think13
Joined: 22 May 2008 Posts: 107 Location: Minnesota
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
Wow! This will be very helpful for me, thanks!
Here are some ones I've been having trouble with:
Are You Gonna Go My Way
Rooftops
The Middle
Pull Me Under
I would appreciate it if you could figure those out. In the meantime, I'll start improving my scores with what you have. Freeforms are my biggest weakness, so again, thanks a lot! _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
bclare
Joined: 21 Jun 2008 Posts: 6048 Location: Boston
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
think13 wrote: | Wow! This will be very helpful for me, thanks!
Here are some ones I've been having trouble with:
Are You Gonna Go My Way
Rooftops
The Middle
Pull Me Under
I would appreciate it if you could figure those out. In the meantime, I'll start improving my scores with what you have. Freeforms are my biggest weakness, so again, thanks a lot! |
I don't know what the notes would be, but I know I've gotten x8 on Pull Me Under, so there's a lot of score potential there. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Doremi
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 Posts: 61 Location: Rome
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
First off, thanks for the FF "paths".
But how do you play that, using your voice or using some sort of instrument? For it looks pretty hard to me to use a voice with scales, am I wrong?
I personally use only my voice in FFs and try to find some patterns I repeat, might be a chorus line, or a certain part of the song, then I tweak it so that I change more notes possible and the multiplier goes up...I sometimes got 8 or even 9 multipliers doing that and even won quite a few tourneys on the GH site using this method.
What I do wonder is if finding a good pattern that "does it" may even give better results, just my 2 cents here.
Problem is that these patterns are sometimes totally crazy, to the point I have to record them in my cell phone to be able to remember them a second time.
You know (and sorry if I digress a bit, but I've been thinking about it and this gives me the opportunity to let it out), but the truth is this FF thing has totally ruined the game, it counts too much as to the final score and it makes everything become very relative...
I mean, if a vocalist that gets 99% of the song doesn't do an excellent FF, he'll lose when competing with a vocalist that gets 89 % but gets an excellent FF score.
This is what made vocals a failure in this game IMO, they are too unpredictable, not like the other instruments where you can even make paths.
While in RB you are able to do a song well if you sing it well...not spending hours trying to find the sounds that will give you a high FF
It just doesn't reflect skill, and IMO it should count as a difference of a few thousand points at most, that would be a good way to still let the most skilled vocalist get the highest score.
I think that they should do something about it in the next editions and realize that they have made vocals the least attractive part of the game, solely for it's being so unpredictable and subjective. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bclare
Joined: 21 Jun 2008 Posts: 6048 Location: Boston
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Doremi wrote: | First off, thanks for the FF "paths".
But how do you play that, using your voice or using some sort of instrument? For it looks pretty hard to me to use a voice with scales, am I wrong?
I personally use only my voice in FFs and try to find some patterns I repeat, might be a chorus line, or a certain part of the song, then I tweak it so that I change more notes possible and the multiplier goes up...I sometimes got 8 or even 9 multipliers doing that and even won quite a few tourneys on the GH site using this method.
What I do wonder is if finding a good pattern that "does it" may even give better results, just my 2 cents here.
Problem is that these patterns are sometimes totally crazy, to the point I have to record them in my cell phone to be able to remember them a second time.
You know (and sorry if I digress a bit, but I've been thinking about it and this gives me the opportunity to let it out), but the truth is this FF thing has totally ruined the game, it counts too much as to the final score and it makes everything become very relative...
I mean, if a vocalist that gets 99% of the song doesn't do an excellent FF, he'll lose when competing with a vocalist that gets 89 % but gets an excellent FF score.
This is what made vocals a failure in this game IMO, they are too unpredictable, not like the other instruments where you can even make paths.
While in RB you are able to do a song well if you sing it well...not spending hours trying to find the sounds that will give you a high FF
It just doesn't reflect skill, and IMO it should count as a difference of a few thousand points at most, that would be a good way to still let the most skilled vocalist get the highest score.
I think that they should do something about it in the next editions and realize that they have made vocals the least attractive part of the game, solely for it's being so unpredictable and subjective. |
Totally agree with you; scores for GHWT vocals are almost completely without value. I would say that any FC reflects an equal amount of skill, and the point total is just indicative of the silly FF mechanic. Although, there are some songs without FF, so scores on those are still respectable. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bh0ukk
Joined: 10 Jun 2006 Posts: 20
|
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: | First off, thanks for the FF "paths".
But how do you play that, using your voice or using some sort of instrument? For it looks pretty hard to me to use a voice with scales, am I wrong? |
I listen to the notes before playing the song and when i have memorized them, i play.
IMO, using something else than your voice is cheating.
@think13 : I think you could actually contribute to this.... I was wrong i guess.
I don't understand why so many people thinks FF are that hard to figure. I mean, an hidden melody would be nearly impossible to find!
It's just singing in tune with the song. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
sfal
Joined: 11 Feb 2009 Posts: 109
|
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I thought everyone but me just turned up the game vocals and put the mic next to the speaker, and played recordings of keyboard solos matched to the song during freeforms.
I don't like the songs were you end up with 1 point and an X9 multiplier! But mostly just kinda singing the song and varying the voice seems to work well enough, not for me so far to compete. Not that I sing very well anyway.
But are vocal freeforms (or percussion) to maximize points on vocals to differentiate percentage scores from each other much different than pathing and squeezing? Or drums +freeform or guitar/bass +whammy?
It's just all game score-modifying features. This isn't a test of music playing skills, it's a game of mimicing music that requires a number of music or musically related skills. Rhythm, timing, pattern. We can't have hundreds of people tied for 1st with 100%, now can we. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bclare
Joined: 21 Jun 2008 Posts: 6048 Location: Boston
|
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
sfal wrote: | I thought everyone but me just turned up the game vocals and put the mic next to the speaker, and played recordings of keyboard solos matched to the song during freeforms.
I don't like the songs were you end up with 1 point and an X9 multiplier! But mostly just kinda singing the song and varying the voice seems to work well enough, not for me so far to compete. Not that I sing very well anyway.
But are vocal freeforms (or percussion) to maximize points on vocals to differentiate percentage scores from each other much different than pathing and squeezing? Or drums +freeform or guitar/bass +whammy?
It's just all game score-modifying features. This isn't a test of music playing skills, it's a game of mimicing music that requires a number of music or musically related skills. Rhythm, timing, pattern. We can't have hundreds of people tied for 1st with 100%, now can we. |
The difference is that freeforms can be worth an insane number of points, dwarfing what you'd get from the rest of the song. It's possible for someone to get say 80% on a song but score considerably higher than another person who got 95%. For any other instrument, a good path compared to a bad path can only make up a few percentage points worth of accuracy |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Doremi
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 Posts: 61 Location: Rome
|
Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
bclare wrote: |
The difference is that freeforms can be worth an insane number of points, dwarfing what you'd get from the rest of the song. It's possible for someone to get say 80% on a song but score considerably higher than another person who got 95%. For any other instrument, a good path compared to a bad path can only make up a few percentage points worth of accuracy |
Exactly what I meant, and I'm happy that after a number of posts in GH finally someone resumed exactly what I meant to say in a much better english than mine
If they granted freeforms a fair number of points, it would still allow people to play a game (I never compared it to real singing, I know very well it's a game and as such it has little score modifying features, just as whammying and squeezing) and differentiate scores but without winning in an unfair and not skill related way over other players that get up to 98 % just with their technical skills.
Also, we all know that some people use keyboards to get those FFs and if they were given less points for FFs, they wouldn't be able to win when in competitions. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
sfal
Joined: 11 Feb 2009 Posts: 109
|
Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't see a big difference between calculating note scores and tweaking the playing, and figuring out notes and singing them a certain way.
One would imagine using a keyboard is cheating, like buying a better mic or set of drums or using a sock on the screen. I'm not sure where the rules state what the freeform section is for freeforming in. Voice, keyboard, tambourine, cowbell, maracas, bongo drums? Hey, go buy a keyboard and voila, even playing field.
I know, I know, only the player and their voice (and controller and mic) are unmodified native parts of the game.
The scores are the point. If calculating notes, a good path, tick counts, whammying and squeezing can add 5K or 20K or more points to an FC, it's making these "non-musical" variables the deciding factor in score. Why not making the actual musical act of singing a certain way the deciding factor?
I mean, after all, everyone has the same opportunity to whammy, path, squeeze and the like. And everyone has the same opportunity to freeform, don't they? Or is it because it's not a matter of manipulating a scoring system but requires musical creativity and singing skill / the ability to find and implement tone and timing patterns with your voice.
Depending on song. I mean, it's not really like the song is only grading your singing anyway. It's judging how you can do what they want you to, and how good the mic is. Kinda like the rest of the instruments. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bclare
Joined: 21 Jun 2008 Posts: 6048 Location: Boston
|
Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
sfal wrote: | I don't see a big difference between calculating note scores and tweaking the playing, and figuring out notes and singing them a certain way.
One would imagine using a keyboard is cheating, like buying a better mic or set of drums or using a sock on the screen. I'm not sure where the rules state what the freeform section is for freeforming in. Voice, keyboard, tambourine, cowbell, maracas, bongo drums? Hey, go buy a keyboard and voila, even playing field.
I know, I know, only the player and their voice (and controller and mic) are unmodified native parts of the game.
The scores are the point. If calculating notes, a good path, tick counts, whammying and squeezing can add 5K or 20K or more points to an FC, it's making these "non-musical" variables the deciding factor in score. Why not making the actual musical act of singing a certain way the deciding factor?
I mean, after all, everyone has the same opportunity to whammy, path, squeeze and the like. And everyone has the same opportunity to freeform, don't they? Or is it because it's not a matter of manipulating a scoring system but requires musical creativity and singing skill / the ability to find and implement tone and timing patterns with your voice.
Depending on song. I mean, it's not really like the song is only grading your singing anyway. It's judging how you can do what they want you to, and how good the mic is. Kinda like the rest of the instruments. |
I see your point, but one issue is the complete lack of transparency for how FF scores are calculated. If there was a "tube" to follow that would give you max FF points, and they put that on screen for everyone to try to follow, then it would be fair. But there are hidden game mechanics that are hard to figure out and even harder to execute. It's similar to BREs in Rock Band, except BREs don't matter that much because they're only worth a few thousand points for a song where the total is generally over 100,000 (except for some short songs with BREs and the AC/DC songs with like 45k BREs) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Doremi
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 Posts: 61 Location: Rome
|
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
sfal wrote: | I don't see a big difference between calculating note scores and tweaking the playing, and figuring out notes and singing them a certain way.
One would imagine using a keyboard is cheating, like buying a better mic or set of drums or using a sock on the screen. I'm not sure where the rules state what the freeform section is for freeforming in. Voice, keyboard, tambourine, cowbell, maracas, bongo drums? Hey, go buy a keyboard and voila, even playing field.
I know, I know, only the player and their voice (and controller and mic) are unmodified native parts of the game.
The scores are the point. If calculating notes, a good path, tick counts, whammying and squeezing can add 5K or 20K or more points to an FC, it's making these "non-musical" variables the deciding factor in score. Why not making the actual musical act of singing a certain way the deciding factor?
I mean, after all, everyone has the same opportunity to whammy, path, squeeze and the like. And everyone has the same opportunity to freeform, don't they? Or is it because it's not a matter of manipulating a scoring system but requires musical creativity and singing skill / the ability to find and implement tone and timing patterns with your voice.
Depending on song. I mean, it's not really like the song is only grading your singing anyway. It's judging how you can do what they want you to, and how good the mic is. Kinda like the rest of the instruments. |
I do see a big difference with other instruments and techniques since whammying, squeezing and paths can be reached by anyone with practice and patience, with everyone starting on even and fair grounds.
I know a lot of people that play on guitar and win, and to get certain scores they practice for hours, learning to whammy, squeeze etc out of months of hard practice and getting skilled in that game...that's great!
While vocals in GH just does not work like that!
Using a keyboard or any other external equipment means something else, you need a device that the game did not provide.
To me it's getting a result with devices most people don't have.
As you say, only the player and their voice (and controller and mic) are unmodified native parts of the game
I agree that just as whammying and squeezing can add points to an FC, thus making these non "non-musical" variables the deciding factor in score, also the actual musical act of singing a certain way could be the deciding factor, but that would be ok if you learned techniques that the game offers and not seek help with other external stuff, for this sets people on uneven grounds, since the good vocalist that gets high scores with matching pitch and correct OD usage but is not technically savvy as to be able to find scales using a keyboard and even more setting it up for the mic to catch the sound in the game, will lose to a person that could suck on vocals but using a keyboard gets a whole lotta FF OD points.
To me this is cheating, although I'm aware that not everybody agrees and it could be seen as being clever
If this shouldn't be considered cheating, then any mode should be allowed or accepted to get high scores, even tweaking instruments and whatever, up to getting the original track and getting it all played instead of you (I'm sure some technically smart person that deals with music could do that).
Now, I guess that the whole point in any kind of competition is that the best players should win, and not the others.
I would compare it to using drugs in athletics, which is not considered fair winning (and those are games too).
If they just granted less points in FFs as it happens with BREs in RB, this prob would not exist.
It would be a simple solution that'd put an end to all this score bloating in tourneys obtained by people that would get shitty scores without FFs.
So IMO as it is, it's a flawed system that easily gives who decides to... let's say "be smart", the opportunity to be rewarded.
Rant over, apologies for kind of hijacking the original thread.
Now to try and find more notes for these FFs...wish I could post my vocal exploits in FFs, but that would be hard to translate to notes, LOL |
|
Back to top |
|
|
think13
Joined: 22 May 2008 Posts: 107 Location: Minnesota
|
Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:28 pm Post subject: Thanks! |
|
|
This thread gave me a first place score on Good God! Thanks so much! I would have never guessed that weird scale from just the music.
About Pull Me Under, I can get x8 on the first FF, but only x6 on the second... Perhaps they are different?
I would like to contribute to this, but I don't have perfect pitch and don't want to lug my piano down to the basement... _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
GrindingMystic
Joined: 14 Dec 2008 Posts: 9
|
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
---RANT ALERT---
I'm sorry to anybody who likes the FF and thinks it's a good way to play but they are to easy to cheat on. Here is a fact:
a person once got 10,000x10 on a FF (100,000) he also had a 4x multiplyer (400,000) he also had star power (800,000) he also had a 4x band multiplier (3,200,000) there were 4 FF sections in the song (12,800,000).
I'm sorry but the score from FF in comparison to normal singing is ridiculously high (like 1:100) and I'm hoping in the game after Guitar Hero: Metallica, Activision either tone down the points or delete it ENTIRELY from the game. This system has totally ruined the leaderboards (I FC'd a song and got 5026th on the leaderboards)
Also you putting up the exact notes required is just helping these cheaters (not blaming you).
---RANT ALERT--- _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Copyright © 2006-2024 ScoreHero, LLC
|
Powered by phpBB
|