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trofl 
Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 1297
Location: Ames, IA
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 Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| 0wnd1zzl3d wrote: | First of all, I think you're the first person to spell my name right, so props to you for that  |
A computer's clipboard is an amazing thing.
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xmaartist
Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 1699
Location: Lee's Summit, Missouri
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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I honestly don't want gay marriage. I'm opposed to it totally. I don't care if you're gay or not, but you shouldn't be able to do a Catholic ritual when your viewpoint violates Catholicism. It's like slapping a church in the face. I'm not religious either, I don't care if you are or aren't, but you shouldn't be able to do something like that. Sure they can have the same rights as a married couple, but definitely not through a marriage ceremony or even call it marriage.
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trofl
Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 1297
Location: Ames, IA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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| xmaartist wrote: | | I honestly don't want gay marriage. I'm opposed to it totally. I don't care if you're gay or not, but you shouldn't be able to do a Catholic ritual when your viewpoint violates Catholicism. It's like slapping a church in the face. I'm not religious either, I don't care if you are or aren't, but you shouldn't be able to do something like that. Sure they can have the same rights as a married couple, but definitely not through a marriage ceremony or even call it marriage. |
So Jews can't marry, or Muslims, or atheists?
In a sense, I agree. Perhaps we should take the word "marriage" completely out of government use, with all that separation of church and state stuff. But if we're going to give rights to unionized couples, they should be given to all unionized couples, gay or straight, atheist or deist, etc. Whether or not a church decides that you can marry should play no matter.
You can also argue that the meaning of words change with time. Just like here in Iowa, we voted on a proposition to change a constitutional law to replace the word "idiot" (which had a different meaning the past) with something more politically correct today. When we speak of marriage, in modern times, we don't necessarily mean it in purely Catholic terms. So maybe government does indeed need to redefine marriage for its own sake, but in a non-separatist manner, of course. Otherwise, it's gonna be a bitch trying to tell folks that they're no longer, by law, married, but hey, you still have that civil union. And all that paperwork stuff too.
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rELAPSE
Joined: 27 Sep 2007
Posts: 137
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| xmaartist wrote: | | I honestly don't want gay marriage. I'm opposed to it totally. I don't care if you're gay or not, but you shouldn't be able to do a Catholic ritual when your viewpoint violates Catholicism. It's like slapping a church in the face. I'm not religious either, I don't care if you are or aren't, but you shouldn't be able to do something like that. Sure they can have the same rights as a married couple, but definitely not through a marriage ceremony or even call it marriage. |
i agree with that fully
just don't call it marriage, i mean rename it to something else because "marriage" is a sacrament in the Catholic religion, and many catholics do not want that sacrament to be violated. I mean gays already have civil unions which i know doesn't has as many rights as marriage does, but still if you wanted MARRIAGE so badly then you probably would not be gay because marriage is a very religious thing. It's really impossible to separate the church from state on this issue, because you're using the word marriage, which i think really led the whole outcome of the vote because the word marriage is used. If you called it something else with all the same rights as marriage I am pretty sure it would have gone to the gay people.
And there is one hypocrisy that i've seen a lot of. On the No on 8 sign it says "equality for all" yet i know a lot (i am not saying all) of people that allow abortion.
now let me ask you this, how can one say that want equality for all when they want gays right to marriage, but they won't allow a baby's right to live?
(i'm really not trying to start anything so.. if it comes out that way, i'm sorry, and just stating my opinion, and i respect all of your opinions, because that's so great about America and it's democracy, we can all share our opinions without getting hated on ( even though there's still a lot of hate going around which really defeats the whole point but those that want to spread hate are really just ignorant), it's a great thing really.)
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0wnd1zzl3d
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 2116
Location: San Clemente, CA (Right between LA and San Diego)
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| trofl wrote: | | xmaartist wrote: | | I honestly don't want gay marriage. I'm opposed to it totally. I don't care if you're gay or not, but you shouldn't be able to do a Catholic ritual when your viewpoint violates Catholicism. It's like slapping a church in the face. I'm not religious either, I don't care if you are or aren't, but you shouldn't be able to do something like that. Sure they can have the same rights as a married couple, but definitely not through a marriage ceremony or even call it marriage. |
So Jews can't marry, or Muslims, or atheists?
In a sense, I agree. Perhaps we should take the word "marriage" completely out of government use, with all that separation of church and state stuff. But if we're going to give rights to unionized couples, they should be given to all unionized couples, gay or straight, atheist or deist, etc. Whether or not a church decides that you can marry should play no matter.
You can also argue that the meaning of words change with time. Just like here in Iowa, we voted on a proposition to change a constitutional law to replace the word "idiot" (which had a different meaning the past) with something more politically correct today. When we speak of marriage, in modern times, we don't necessarily mean it in purely Catholic terms. So maybe government does indeed need to redefine marriage for its own sake, but in a non-separatist manner, of course. Otherwise, it's gonna be a bitch trying to tell folks that they're no longer, by law, married, but hey, you still have that civil union. And all that paperwork stuff too. |
Exactly. Like I said before, there's two forms of marriage. The legal document, and the religious ceremony. The only thing they really have in common is the name. And it shouldn't be banned because of it. All it does (the document) is recognize a couple as a union. If it were named something else (for everyone, gay and straight), then my bet is that 8 wouldn't have passed.
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Mushy2008 
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 1725
Location: Indianapolis Indiana
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| rELAPSE wrote: |
I mean gays already have civil unions which i know doesn't has as many rights as marriage does, but still if you wanted MARRIAGE so badly then you probably would not be gay |
For real, I smacked myself in the face when I read this statement... Do you really think I CHOSE to be part of a minority that is humiliated/disgraced/belittled/attacked...blah blah blah... I'm sorry, but that is just one of the most ignorant statements I have ever heard in my life..
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trofl
Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 1297
Location: Ames, IA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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| rELAPSE wrote: | now let me ask you this, how can one say that want equality for all when they want gays right to marriage, but they won't allow a baby's right to live?
(i'm really not trying to start anything so.. if it comes out that way, i'm sorry, and just stating my opinion, and i respect all of your opinions, because that's so great about America and it's democracy, we can all share our opinions without getting hated on ( even though there's still a lot of hate going around which really defeats the whole point but those that want to spread hate are really just ignorant), it's a great thing really.) |
But you are starting something by saying "let me ask you this." These are separate issues, so throwing a red herring like this is really not useful. And what Mushy2008 said about the whole "jee, why not just be not gay?" thing (though I am straight).
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0wnd1zzl3d
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 2116
Location: San Clemente, CA (Right between LA and San Diego)
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| Mushy2008 wrote: | | rELAPSE wrote: |
I mean gays already have civil unions which i know doesn't has as many rights as marriage does, but still if you wanted MARRIAGE so badly then you probably would not be gay |
For real, I smacked myself in the face when I read this statement... Do you really think I CHOSE to be part of a minority that is humiliated/disgraced/belittled/attacked...blah blah blah... I'm sorry, but that is just one of the most ignorant statements I have ever heard in my life.. |
Agreed, that was one of the most ignorant things I've ever read.
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trofl
Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 1297
Location: Ames, IA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:01 am Post subject: |
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Now, in trying to start something, if we're going to ban gays from getting married because marriage is a religious thing:
What religions are allowed to decide who gets to marry?
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Subrick
Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 1382
Location: Terryville, CT
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:19 am Post subject: |
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Hmm.
Well, Christianity would go apeshit and try to do that. |
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jordan22
Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 102
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| xmaartist wrote: | | I honestly don't want gay marriage. I'm opposed to it totally. I don't care if you're gay or not, but you shouldn't be able to do a Catholic ritual when your viewpoint violates Catholicism. It's like slapping a church in the face. I'm not religious either, I don't care if you are or aren't, but you shouldn't be able to do something like that. Sure they can have the same rights as a married couple, but definitely not through a marriage ceremony or even call it marriage. |
Well the catholic church doesn't have to marry anyone they don't want to and many other christian churches will and do perform gay marriages. Its more of a slap in the face to protestants imo if they cant marry two people just because the catholics have a problem with it. |
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Doppelganger13
Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 127
Location: California
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:57 am Post subject: |
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| Mushy2008 wrote: | | rELAPSE wrote: |
I mean gays already have civil unions which i know doesn't has as many rights as marriage does, but still if you wanted MARRIAGE so badly then you probably would not be gay |
For real, I smacked myself in the face when I read this statement... Do you really think I CHOSE to be part of a minority that is humiliated/disgraced/belittled/attacked...blah blah blah... I'm sorry, but that is just one of the most ignorant statements I have ever heard in my life.. |
I agree completely. I'm not gay, but I believe that some people are born gay, you don't choose to be gay.
I watched Keith's special comment when it aired on TV and it was amazing. Only Keith could word something so beautifully.
I really have to ask people that are against gay marriage, why exactly are you against it? |
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lazor
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1079
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:02 am Post subject: |
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| xmaartist wrote: | | I honestly don't want gay marriage. I'm opposed to it totally. I don't care if you're gay or not, but you shouldn't be able to do a Catholic ritual when your viewpoint violates Catholicism. It's like slapping a church in the face. I'm not religious either, I don't care if you are or aren't, but you shouldn't be able to do something like that. Sure they can have the same rights as a married couple, but definitely not through a marriage ceremony or even call it marriage. |
Spoilers
Marriage predates The Catholic Church, and in the US it's a legal contract. |
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kuh-ray-zee
Joined: 01 Apr 2008
Posts: 385
Location: Houston
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Subrick
Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 1382
Location: Terryville, CT
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, people do that because they see gay people as bad/not fit for society. Why wlse do you think many people classify something stupid as "gay"? |
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