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snowyporpoise
Joined: 17 Jul 2008 Posts: 1655 Location: Burlington, ON
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 5:15 am Post subject: |
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Beatles, Zepplin and Sabbath probably all have good cases. _________________
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OpenYourEyes
Joined: 18 Jul 2007 Posts: 4086 Location: I'm not sure. It's dark and I hear laughing.
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 5:17 am Post subject: |
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GIRLintheFIRE wrote: | Klaww wrote: | Alright, you gave a reason for the beatles, but why do you disagree with nirvana, you gave no reason. |
Nirvana just isn't anywhere near as close to The Beatles in terms of Legacy. Nirvana will go down in history as a band that was around just long enough to knock the industry off of it's feet, and not much more. |
I kinda have to agree on this one. Nirvana was good and all that jazz, but the Beatles are, well, the Beatles. Nirvana just doesn't stand up to that.
snowyporpoise wrote: | Beatles, Zepplin and Sabbath probably all have good cases. |
I think the Beatles did a lot more than either of the other two. Yes, they were all very, very influential, but the Beatles out-do just about everybody. _________________
blingdomepiece wrote: | Eastwinn wrote: | As a kid I wasted my time cheating in SimCity or the Sims, and now that I'm discovering how much fun it is to not cheat, I'm also discovering how stupidly hard it is | Set all the tax rates to 9. |
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cobainage1994
Joined: 14 Jun 2006 Posts: 2020 Location: Whitewater , WI
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:58 am Post subject: |
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OpenYourEyes wrote: | GIRLintheFIRE wrote: | Klaww wrote: | Alright, you gave a reason for the beatles, but why do you disagree with nirvana, you gave no reason. |
Nirvana just isn't anywhere near as close to The Beatles in terms of Legacy. Nirvana will go down in history as a band that was around just long enough to knock the industry off of it's feet, and not much more. |
I kinda have to agree on this one. Nirvana was good and all that jazz, but the Beatles are, well, the Beatles. Nirvana just doesn't stand up to that. |
Have to agree with this one. Don't get me wrong,I love Nirvana, I think they are an incredible band (note the username), but lumping them in with the Beatles is a bit of a stretch. |
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OpenYourEyes
Joined: 18 Jul 2007 Posts: 4086 Location: I'm not sure. It's dark and I hear laughing.
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:29 am Post subject: |
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cobainage1994 wrote: | OpenYourEyes wrote: | GIRLintheFIRE wrote: | Klaww wrote: | Alright, you gave a reason for the beatles, but why do you disagree with nirvana, you gave no reason. |
Nirvana just isn't anywhere near as close to The Beatles in terms of Legacy. Nirvana will go down in history as a band that was around just long enough to knock the industry off of it's feet, and not much more. |
I kinda have to agree on this one. Nirvana was good and all that jazz, but the Beatles are, well, the Beatles. Nirvana just doesn't stand up to that. |
Have to agree with this one. Don't get me wrong,I love Nirvana, I think they are an incredible band (note the username), but lumping them in with the Beatles is a bit of a stretch. |
Personally, I don't like Nirvana. That doesn't stop me from knowing that they were very influential, and that they wrote good music. It's just not my kind of stuff. _________________
blingdomepiece wrote: | Eastwinn wrote: | As a kid I wasted my time cheating in SimCity or the Sims, and now that I'm discovering how much fun it is to not cheat, I'm also discovering how stupidly hard it is | Set all the tax rates to 9. |
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afrojavi
Joined: 16 Feb 2009 Posts: 227
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:59 am Post subject: |
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The greatest band is Tool
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Shadowstep
Joined: 19 May 2009 Posts: 219 Location: Geraldton, Western Australia
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:55 am Post subject: |
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The Beatles are boring.
It's really hard to pick the greatest band of all time. If I had to pick I guess I'd say either Tool or Atheist. _________________
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stumper93
Joined: 19 May 2007 Posts: 1458 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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I think in my opinion, being the "greatest" band ever has to be one that:
1. Has influence on other bands
2. Has a huge legacy
3. And you can ask any person and they will know this band, whether it be one song or every song.
My answer (you guessed it): The Beatles.
It seems it's already been established that the Beatles have influenced tons of bands and have a huge legacy.
But what some people, imo, never take into consideration is the third one. Now the two posts above me wrote Tool and Atheist. Alright...that's fine and good. Now ask any normal person who those bands are and you'll get a "Huh?"
Ask any normal person who The Beatles are and you're bound to get a "Duh, who doesn't know them? Or you'll get a "Yes." You could probably ask them to name off a song and they would know at least one. Even if they aren't a huge fan of them. They just know them.
That's what I think, what do you think about the third number? _________________
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cobainage1994
Joined: 14 Jun 2006 Posts: 2020 Location: Whitewater , WI
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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stumper93 wrote: | Now the two posts above me wrote Tool and Atheist. Alright...that's fine and good. Now ask any normal person who those bands are and you'll get a "Huh?"
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If the people regarded in this posts could give reasons as to why Tool and Atheist are deserving of the greatest band ever, I would appreciate it.
I like Tool, I am not huge on their music, but from what i have heard, they are a great band. But to call them the greatest band ever, I think that is a bit of a stretch. As I stated in my OP several times, their is a BIG difference between the greatest band, and your favorite band. I have not noticed drastic influence from Tool in music today, nor are the loved and adored by several generations of todays society.
As stumper stated, unless you are a fan of tool, or a big rock fan in general, many people have probably not heard a song by them. I feel it is safe to say that the majority of the music listening culture has not heard of Tool.
In regards to Atheist. I have never heard them, but I know they are death metal. It is pretty obvious that death metal does not have the largest fan base, nor has the genre as a whole been popular long enough to create enough influence. I personally, can not think of one reason why a death metal band deserves the crown of the greatest band ever, maybe your favorite, but the greatest band to ever exist?? C'mon |
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Shadowstep
Joined: 19 May 2009 Posts: 219 Location: Geraldton, Western Australia
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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cobainage1994 wrote: | stumper93 wrote: | Now the two posts above me wrote Tool and Atheist. Alright...that's fine and good. Now ask any normal person who those bands are and you'll get a "Huh?"
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If the people regarded in this posts could give reasons as to why Tool and Atheist are deserving of the greatest band ever, I would appreciate it.
I like Tool, I am not huge on their music, but from what i have heard, they are a great band. But to call them the greatest band ever, I think that is a bit of a stretch. As I stated in my OP several times, their is a BIG difference between the greatest band, and your favorite band. I have not noticed drastic influence from Tool in music today, nor are the loved and adored by several generations of todays society.
As stumper stated, unless you are a fan of tool, or a big rock fan in general, many people have probably not heard a song by them. I feel it is safe to say that the majority of the music listening culture has not heard of Tool.
In regards to Atheist. I have never heard them, but I know they are death metal. It is pretty obvious that death metal does not have the largest fan base, nor has the genre as a whole been popular long enough to create enough influence. I personally, can not think of one reason why a death metal band deserves the crown of the greatest band ever, maybe your favorite, but the greatest band to ever exist?? C'mon |
But why do they have to be popular?
You're definition of "greatest" is far different to mine. To me, "greatest" can mean any combination of the following:
a) Constantly broke new ground in music
b) Produced complex music that requires higher level musicianship to perform
c) And similar to your definition, pioneered future genres of music
From then on it's completely subjective. I'm guessing you like music from the 60's? If you said either The Jimi Hendrix Experience or King Crimson were the greatest band ever I would have no quarrels. But the Beatles? I would disagree, popularity alone simply doesn't justify them as the "greatest" band ever in my opinion.
You have to remember, this is what our Western Democratic society is built on; the most popular choice is not always right. _________________
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Ensiferum
Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Posts: 202 Location: UW-Madison
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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My main issue with the influential argument is that most seem to believe (or they imply it in their explanations) that progression needs to be linear. X influenced Y, Y influenced Z. I'm not going to lie and say influence is irrelevant. Obviously, most bands that haev ever existed were inspired by or formed because of another band. This isn't to say however, that Band Z could not have just formed in a garage creating some brand new genre of music. If the influence of music is in fact so defined and linear, then every band that was ever influenced by The Beatles has been indirectly influenced by Chuck Berry, Elvis, etc.
I really can't find any other way to explain my thoughts...
I don't honestly believe I could pick a certain set of distinctions that qualify a band as being the "greatest" ever. _________________
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GIRLintheFIRE
Joined: 26 Dec 2009 Posts: 139
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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Shadowstep wrote: | But why do they have to be popular?
You're definition of "greatest" is far different to mine. To me, "greatest" can mean any combination of the following:
a) Constantly broke new ground in music
b) Produced complex music that requires higher level musicianship to perform
c) And similar to your definition, pioneered future genres of music |
Criteria: b) is talk about the band being good/bad, not great.
Here are the first two entries in the thesaurus:
~
Main Entry: great
Definition: important, celebrated
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Main Entry: great
Definition: very large
~
The Beatles are definitely the most of all 3 of those criteria combined. I believe legacy and great go hand in hand.
What was it that made Alexander the Great so great?
Shadowstep wrote: | You have to remember, this is what our Western Democratic society is built on; the most popular choice is not always right. |
This is something that can be measured objectively.
Ensiferum wrote: | My main issue with the influential argument is that most seem to believe (or they imply it in their explanations) that progression needs to be linear. X influenced Y, Y influenced Z. I'm not going to lie and say influence is irrelevant. Obviously, most bands that haev ever existed were inspired by or formed because of another band. This isn't to say however, that Band Z could not have just formed in a garage creating some brand new genre of music. If the influence of music is in fact so defined and linear, then every band that was ever influenced by The Beatles has been indirectly influenced by Chuck Berry, Elvis, etc. |
That's why I toss 'directly' in there. _________________
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jackmav41
Joined: 24 Jul 2009 Posts: 275
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Ask any normal person who The Beatles are and you're bound to get a "Duh, who doesn't know them? Or you'll get a "Yes." You could probably ask them to name off a song and they would know at least one. Even if they aren't a huge fan of them. They just know them. |
Exactly. Like when I was little and didn't know the name of any band, I had heard of The Beatles.You kind of already know who the Beatles are without really knowing, kind of like the intro to Smoke on the Water, you know it without knowing the name of the song because it's so popular. _________________
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BNghfreak12
Joined: 17 May 2008 Posts: 583
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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This thread demonstrates why music should only be subjective. The Beatles are just a band. So are Nirvana. So are Tool. So are [insert band here]. Yes, one band may be the most influential and the most popular (The Beatles is an obvious candidate for that) but does that equal greatest? Does ANYTHING in music equal greatest? No. |
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machchunk
Joined: 28 Oct 2006 Posts: 3829 Location: Pasco, WA
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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BNghfreak12 wrote: | Does ANYTHING in music equal greatest? No. |
Of course it can. You only think that because you're so used to the conversational meaning of great. "Great" was meant to be a more objective word, like so:
*Remarkable or outstanding in magnitude, degree, or extent
*Of outstanding significance or importance
Certainly the Beatles or some aspect of them fit one of those definitions. _________________
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sidney17
Joined: 13 Sep 2008 Posts: 209 Location: Shropshire, England
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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From page one:
GIRLintheFIRE wrote: | The term "Greatest" has more behind it than being good. You don't have to be the best to be the greatest. What greatest really has to do with is legacy. |
Well, that's archetypal. Really, greatest isn't up to popular opinion, it's up to the individual making that choice. (The previous sentence is also an archetypal generalisation).
I believe Sonata Arctica are the greatest band ever. Reasons? I just really fucking love their music, now give me a break and debate the definition of "greatest" without me. _________________
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