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Kinitawowi
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 1074
Location: Newham, London, UK
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 Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Hmmmm |
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| Blashyrkh wrote: | The buzzword I've noticed looking through seven pages of posts is "reinvent".
And my question to everyone who mentioned that word is how do you reinvent a game that has had the exact same gameplay since day one? The basic tenet of gameplay has not changed and will never change.
Personally, Guitar Hero should only have a character creator and a dozen locations, modelled on famous clubs or locations. And the music. That's it. Putting a storyline in GH was a dumb idea and wasted valuable disc space that could have gone to more songs.
If GH wants to survive it needs to go back to basics. Focus on the music. I don't get a hard-on from listening to Gene Simmons reciting some bullshit, or helping imaginary "deacon of popular music defeat some generic monster" or earning 40 stars.
I get a hard on from playing some of the best music ever written.
As long as GH continues to direct focus away from this most important facet of the game, it will continue to decline.
/drunken rant. |
This.
Stick with what the game's good at. Five buttons on a stick, a character creator for a little flavour, a decent engine and menu system, and - the toughest part - 93 decent, vital songs.
The tough part is because these games live and die on their setlists. They need to push the boat out, spend some money or whatever and get hold of a a song which is able to sell the game on its own - no game has had that since GH3 (Welcome To The Jungle, and probably also Number Of The Beast), a proper, decent rockout.
They more or less stated that they wanted the GHWT seller to be Livin' On A Prayer (targeting the pissed-up frat boy demographic), which began the attempted shift away from the ultimate rhythm game to the ultimate party game. That's the trend they need to reverse more than any other. Party gaming is one thing the series can truly do without, because it annihilates the longevity (see also: the Wii). It turns it into something that gets rolled out for a ten minute blast before someone in the group says "okay, I'm bored now". Stick with a basic band mode (none of this four guitarists bullshit unless they're actually different charts and parts) and maybe PFO for legacy reasons, and all the other gimmicky shit can get out. I know that in the modern age it's virtually anathema to reduce focus on multiplayer, but tough - this simply isn't a game that works that well as a competitive multiplayer experience, for reasons that have long been discussed in the past (short version; it's always man vs chart not man vs man and there's no way to change that without an implausibly radical shakeup of what the game actually is).
But yeah. Setlist is the most important. Look at the GHWT and GH5 setlists and tell me what sticks out in there as "a song that Guitar Hero has truly needed" - you ain't gonna find much. GH6 did marginally better; the whole world knows Bohemian Rhapsody because it's a great song but damn it's a terrible GH experience because there's so little to most of it unless you're on vocals, and Black Widow is a nice acknowledgement of the custom scene but broadly speaking most people aren't going to care. Find a track from somewhere that everybody knows, would make a decent GH song, and do whatever it takes to get it. Stairway To Heaven isn't it and Paradise City might be too complicated rights-wise, but Bat Out Of Hell might work. Something big, something known, something that would make a decent chart. And make that song the selling point of the game. Build the game around that one song.
And if they can't find that song (and finding it is not going to be an easy task), then face the fact that the series is probably done.
Oh, and for the love of god, no more Dragonforce. I know that they've felt a need to constantly up the ante with so-called CHALLENGE!, and I know that only Dragonforce are crazy enough to make music that fits the bill, but it's getting boring now.
The other thing that's been mentioned that would help things along; big up GHTunes more. More sound customisations and better chording and HOPO creation for starters.
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PiemanLK
Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 4712
Location: /export/home
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Hmmmm |
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| Kinitawowi wrote: | | Stick with a basic band mode (none of this four guitarists bullshit unless they're actually different charts and parts) |
Heyyyyy, hold your horses for a second. I love having four guitarists and three drummers! It's kinda fun just being able to play whatever instrument you feel like without worrying if someone else is already doing it.
| Kinitawowi wrote: | | Oh, and for the love of god, no more Dragonforce. I know that they've felt a need to constantly up the ante with so-called CHALLENGE!, and I know that only Dragonforce are crazy enough to make music that fits the bill, but it's getting boring now. |
GH Dragonforce, I'd buy seven.
| Kinitawowi wrote: | | The other thing that's been mentioned that would help things along; big up GHTunes more. More sound customisations and better chording and HOPO creation for starters. |
Something like REAPER for GH would probably put them on equal footing but make GHTunes far less accessible. The more work you expect people to put in, the better quality you'll get, but you'd also get fewer songs. So it's a trade-off I guess. GHTunes is shitty but you can make a song in like an hour or two and play it.
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Pas26
Joined: 04 Oct 2008
Posts: 3664
Location: Québec, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Hmmmm |
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| Kinitawowi wrote: | We need a staple song
No more DragonForce |
Uneeded bias, and slight contradiction. TTFAF made GH3 very well known and you seem to have ignored the fact that FotS was the most requested song AND probably the staple WoR song. I dont know why Dragonforce gets all the hate, a lot of other bands in these games are as bland, if not MORE bland than them, and people dont constantly whine about it. Except for this band, they bring a challenge. Also, Dragonforce getting boring? We've had 3 songs on-disk and a 3-pack. It does not even come close to ruining the game, and can make a game for some players. I dont see why not.
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dragoninforcer
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 1457
Location: Long Island
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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good.....
very good, indeed........ |
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Cabanon
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 6482
Location: Quebec, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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be able to make a sertlist with the same song, on different difficulties on different instrument.
like
#1 FotS -> Easy Guitar
#2 Fots -> Medium Guitar
#3 Fots -> Easy Bass
#4 Fots -> Medium Bass
instead of reloading all the menu, scrolling all the songs 1 by 1 (btw, why did they removed the scrolling by page option they had in GH5/BH ? that was simply awesome this way), to just reload the song to try it on a different difficulties.
there is place for improvment on alot of aspect (HS option in Pause Menu) for the next GH.
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MSH-Hitman
Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 4481
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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I definitely agree that while the game doesn't need to reinvent itself, I think I would like to see alot of the changes and enhancements into the game itself. Menu's, song choosing, how fast things are between everything, getting into the game faster and smoother. A really improvement to all that would really reflect on the game if you played a song and then they gave the choice to then replay it on bass if you want, with less loading and having to go back through menu's.
Alot of stuff like that will help along with a solid setlist. |
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Deedooh
Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Posts: 104
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:11 am Post subject: Re: Hmmmm |
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| Kinitawowi wrote: | | Blashyrkh wrote: | The buzzword I've noticed looking through seven pages of posts is "reinvent".
And my question to everyone who mentioned that word is how do you reinvent a game that has had the exact same gameplay since day one? The basic tenet of gameplay has not changed and will never change.
Personally, Guitar Hero should only have a character creator and a dozen locations, modelled on famous clubs or locations. And the music. That's it. Putting a storyline in GH was a dumb idea and wasted valuable disc space that could have gone to more songs.
If GH wants to survive it needs to go back to basics. Focus on the music. I don't get a hard-on from listening to Gene Simmons reciting some bullshit, or helping imaginary "deacon of popular music defeat some generic monster" or earning 40 stars.
I get a hard on from playing some of the best music ever written.
As long as GH continues to direct focus away from this most important facet of the game, it will continue to decline.
/drunken rant. |
This.
Stick with what the game's good at. Five buttons on a stick, a character creator for a little flavour, a decent engine and menu system, and - the toughest part - 93 decent, vital songs.
The tough part is because these games live and die on their setlists. They need to push the boat out, spend some money or whatever and get hold of a a song which is able to sell the game on its own - no game has had that since GH3 (Welcome To The Jungle, and probably also Number Of The Beast), a proper, decent rockout.
They more or less stated that they wanted the GHWT seller to be Livin' On A Prayer (targeting the pissed-up frat boy demographic), which began the attempted shift away from the ultimate rhythm game to the ultimate party game. That's the trend they need to reverse more than any other. Party gaming is one thing the series can truly do without, because it annihilates the longevity (see also: the Wii). It turns it into something that gets rolled out for a ten minute blast before someone in the group says "okay, I'm bored now". Stick with a basic band mode (none of this four guitarists bullshit unless they're actually different charts and parts) and maybe PFO for legacy reasons, and all the other gimmicky shit can get out. I know that in the modern age it's virtually anathema to reduce focus on multiplayer, but tough - this simply isn't a game that works that well as a competitive multiplayer experience, for reasons that have long been discussed in the past (short version; it's always man vs chart not man vs man and there's no way to change that without an implausibly radical shakeup of what the game actually is).
But yeah. Setlist is the most important. Look at the GHWT and GH5 setlists and tell me what sticks out in there as "a song that Guitar Hero has truly needed" - you ain't gonna find much. GH6 did marginally better; the whole world knows Bohemian Rhapsody because it's a great song but damn it's a terrible GH experience because there's so little to most of it unless you're on vocals, and Black Widow is a nice acknowledgement of the custom scene but broadly speaking most people aren't going to care. Find a track from somewhere that everybody knows, would make a decent GH song, and do whatever it takes to get it. Stairway To Heaven isn't it and Paradise City might be too complicated rights-wise, but Bat Out Of Hell might work. Something big, something known, something that would make a decent chart. And make that song the selling point of the game. Build the game around that one song.
And if they can't find that song (and finding it is not going to be an easy task), then face the fact that the series is probably done.
Oh, and for the love of god, no more Dragonforce. I know that they've felt a need to constantly up the ante with so-called CHALLENGE!, and I know that only Dragonforce are crazy enough to make music that fits the bill, but it's getting boring now.
The other thing that's been mentioned that would help things along; big up GHTunes more. More sound customisations and better chording and HOPO creation for starters. |
I better be short, because whenever I say my mind here, I get banned.
>>>> Dude, I agree with ALL what you said there. Good post! <<<<
Me = git player since gh1, expert drummer nowdays, online daily playing GHWT/GHSH/GHVH  |
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AbyssalShrimp
Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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"But yeah. Setlist is the most important. Look at the GHWT and GH5 setlists and tell me what sticks out in there as "a song that Guitar Hero has truly needed"
So, when did everybody forget that GHWT had Hotel California and GH5 had Smells Like Teen Spirit?
Because as far as tracks that literally everybody knows go.... |
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ComicBookGuru
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 1679
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| AbyssalShrimp wrote: | "But yeah. Setlist is the most important. Look at the GHWT and GH5 setlists and tell me what sticks out in there as "a song that Guitar Hero has truly needed"
So, when did everybody forget that GHWT had Hotel California and GH5 had Smells Like Teen Spirit?
Because as far as tracks that literally everybody knows go.... |
GHWT and GH5 had incredible setlists. WoR, not as much, but it was still pretty good.
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