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Southparkhero
Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 3251
Location: Some place in NJ.
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 Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| fudrick wrote: | | Oh, Godwin... |
Oh, Godwin 2.0..
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fudrick
Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 2372
Location: Orlando, Florida
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:38 am Post subject: |
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| Southparkhero wrote: | | Oh, Godwin 2.0.. |
Am I missing something? I don't get it >.>
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Vampyromaniac
Joined: 08 Feb 2008
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ready2rock
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 1738
Location: somewhere in this vast universe
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| Vampyromaniac wrote: | | ready2rock wrote: | | Vampyromaniac wrote: | | That being said, I'm not 100% of anything other than the fact that I exist. I am not even 100% sure that the world in which we live exists, or that you exist, etc. |
This guy is a fan of Descartes.  |
Heard of him, but I don't know anything at all about him except that he's well-known and probably lived a long time ago. I'll head on over and wikipedia that soon, though. |
From Wikipedia:
In his Discourse on the Method, he attempts to arrive at a fundamental set of principles that one can know as true without any doubt. To achieve this, he employs a method called hyperbolical/metaphysical doubt, also sometimes referred to as methodological skepticism: he rejects any ideas that can be doubted, and then reestablishes them in order to acquire a firm foundation for genuine knowledge.
Initially, Descartes arrives at only a single principle: thought exists. Thought cannot be separated from me, therefore, I exist (Discourse on the Method and Principles of Philosophy). Most famously, this is known as cogito ergo sum (English: "I think, therefore I am"). Therefore, Descartes concluded, if he doubted, then something or someone must be doing the doubting, therefore the very fact that he doubted proved his existence. "The simple meaning of the phrase is that if one is skeptical of existence, that is in and of itself proof that he does exist."
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RichardGHP
Joined: 01 May 2009
Posts: 2327
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| ready2rock wrote: | | Vampyromaniac wrote: | | ready2rock wrote: | | Vampyromaniac wrote: | | That being said, I'm not 100% of anything other than the fact that I exist. I am not even 100% sure that the world in which we live exists, or that you exist, etc. |
This guy is a fan of Descartes. |
Heard of him, but I don't know anything at all about him except that he's well-known and probably lived a long time ago. I'll head on over and wikipedia that soon, though. |
From Wikipedia:
In his Discourse on the Method, he attempts to arrive at a fundamental set of principles that one can know as true without any doubt. To achieve this, he employs a method called hyperbolical/metaphysical doubt, also sometimes referred to as methodological skepticism: he rejects any ideas that can be doubted, and then reestablishes them in order to acquire a firm foundation for genuine knowledge.
Initially, Descartes arrives at only a single principle: thought exists. Thought cannot be separated from me, therefore, I exist (Discourse on the Method and Principles of Philosophy). Most famously, this is known as cogito ergo sum (English: "I think, therefore I am"). Therefore, Descartes concluded, if he doubted, then something or someone must be doing the doubting, therefore the very fact that he doubted proved his existence. "The simple meaning of the phrase is that if one is skeptical of existence, that is in and of itself proof that he does exist." |
Cogito Ergo Sum proves only that one's mind exists. |
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Fugitive 
Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 3035
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| fudrick wrote: | | Southparkhero wrote: | | Oh, Godwin 2.0.. |
Am I missing something? I don't get it >.> |
I believe the fact that you mention godwin after hitler is what he is calling Godwin 2.0.
@norm - don't bait people then, flat out ask your questions. |
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fudrick
Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 2372
Location: Orlando, Florida
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Fugitive wrote: | | I believe the fact that you mention godwin after hitler is what he is calling Godwin 2.0. |
Oh. That's kinda dumb, and inaccurate <.<
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MetalheadNorm
Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 1041
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Fugitive wrote: | | @norm - don't bait people then, flat out ask your questions. |
I'll save it for another day. It appears as if this thread has run it's course.
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BigFatBob
Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 1389
Location: Big Spring, TX
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:00 am Post subject: |
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Hey, look. Norm's a mascot. Go Norm.
Anyway, given no context, the answer's easy. If a guy DESERVES to die, isn't it okay to kill him? I think the only thing that should be being debated is whether or not a person can do something to deserve death, which
| Vampyromaniac wrote: | | THERE SHOULD BE NO BLACK OR WHITE ON THE TOPIC OF WHETHER OR NOT SOMEONE DESERVES TO DIE. |
explains perfectly.
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Nikolai3035 
Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 581
Location: Fargo, ND
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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Interestingly enough, my international politics textbook has a picture of a baby, and the title of the section is "Would you kill this baby?"
Turns out, it's a picture of baby Adolf Hitler. I actually had to think for a minute whether or not I would actually kill a baby, but then the rational (at least in my opinion, your mileage may vary) part of my brain kicked in, and said "Fuck yes I would kill that baby, the man he became would be responsible for the deaths of millions upon millions of people."
I guess it kind of depends on the crime, but for something as severe as what Hitler did, I believe that he did deserve to die - a lot earlier than he did.
Just thought it was interesting that I could connect that to this topic.
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Drazar 
Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 733
Location: Newcastle, UK
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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As far as I'm concerned, nobody, with no exceptions has the right to decide who should live or die. Not even the police or the government, which is why I'm against capital punishment. The only situation in which I think it's fine for somebody to be killed is when a terminally ill person wants to go instead of enduring the pain they'd inevitably have to suffer later in their life.
If you kill a criminal, then you're as bad as the criminal. Doing it in the name of the law doesn't make it right.
The one thing I do have strong views on, is the state of prisons in my country (England). I know people that've been to prison and they said it's not strict at all. Now I've seen documentaries on American prisons, and I strongly believe that if our prisons were made more like in the states, less people would commit crime. So I think the correct punishment for severe crime is to harshly punish the offenders, and I do not mean just being sent to prison. They need to endure hard labour whilst being incarcerated for a very long period of time, and give something back to society in one way or another. Just sitting around bored in a prison cell doesn't cut at, at least not in this country. A REAL punishment is the only way to deter crime in my opinion.
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fudrick
Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 2372
Location: Orlando, Florida
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Nikolai3035 wrote: | Interestingly enough, my international politics textbook has a picture of a baby, and the title of the section is "Would you kill this baby?"
Turns out, it's a picture of baby Adolf Hitler. I actually had to think for a minute whether or not I would actually kill a baby, but then the rational (at least in my opinion, your mileage may vary) part of my brain kicked in, and said "Fuck yes I would kill that baby, the man he became would be responsible for the deaths of millions upon millions of people."
I guess it kind of depends on the crime, but for something as severe as what Hitler did, I believe that he did deserve to die - a lot earlier than he did.
Just thought it was interesting that I could connect that to this topic. |
I absolutely would not kill him, because then I would cease to exist. My grandmother fled Germany when Hitler came to power, and met my grandfather in America. Yes, I am so selfish that I wouldn't end my own life to stop the Holocaust. You probably wouldn't either ("you" in general to anyone reading this post, not you specifically Nikolai).
| Drazar wrote: | | They need to endure hard labour whilst being incarcerated for a very long period of time, and give something back to society in one way or another. Just sitting around bored in a prison cell doesn't cut at, at least not in this country. A REAL punishment is the only way to deter crime in my opinion. |
Just something to think about, a lot of people would find it worse to just sit in a cell doing nothing for their entire incarceration than to do hard labour for their entire incarceration.
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Nikolai3035
Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 581
Location: Fargo, ND
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| fudrick wrote: | | I absolutely would not kill him, because then I would cease to exist. My grandmother fled Germany when Hitler came to power, and met my grandfather in America. Yes, I am so selfish that I wouldn't end my own life to stop the Holocaust. You probably wouldn't either ("you" in general to anyone reading this post, not you specifically Nikolai). |
Interesting. I guess you've got a valid point there, because of your specific situation. I personally didn't have any relatives (that I know of) affected directly by the Holocaust, so thinking about it from your perspective definitely throws a wrench into my decision-making process. On one hand, there are millions of children that likely would've been born to people that ended up dying in the Holocaust, but then again, there are also many that are around today because of specific situations (such as yours) arising from it.
And yes, I have to agree with you, that if I were in your situation, I most likely wouldn't stop the Holocaust because of that exact same set of circumstances ... I like my life.
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fudrick
Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 2372
Location: Orlando, Florida
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Nikolai3035 wrote: | | Interesting. I guess you've got a valid point there, because of your specific situation. I personally didn't have any relatives (that I know of) affected directly by the Holocaust, so thinking about it from your perspective definitely throws a wrench into my decision-making process. |
My grandmother is 100% German, but she had Jewish friends who they hid in their house at first, but as the situation got worse they realized they had to leave the country. So, she wasn't directly affected by the Holocaust, I guess, but yeah.
| Nikolai3035 wrote: | | On one hand, there are millions of children that likely would've been born to people that ended up dying in the Holocaust, but then again, there are also many that are around today because of specific situations (such as yours) arising from it. |
True, but in the grand scheme of things, I'm sure much more lives/potential lives were ended by the Holocaust than were caused by it, lol. From an objective standpoint, I definitely wouldn't allow baby Adolf to live.
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qays1991
Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 434
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| fudrick wrote: | | Nikolai3035 wrote: | | Interesting. I guess you've got a valid point there, because of your specific situation. I personally didn't have any relatives (that I know of) affected directly by the Holocaust, so thinking about it from your perspective definitely throws a wrench into my decision-making process. |
My grandmother is 100% German, but she had Jewish friends who they hid in their house at first, but as the situation got worse they realized they had to leave the country. So, she wasn't directly affected by the Holocaust, I guess, but yeah.
| Nikolai3035 wrote: | | On one hand, there are millions of children that likely would've been born to people that ended up dying in the Holocaust, but then again, there are also many that are around today because of specific situations (such as yours) arising from it. |
True, but in the grand scheme of things, I'm sure much more lives/potential lives were ended by the Holocaust than were caused by it, lol. From an objective standpoint, I definitely wouldn't allow baby Adolf to live. |
But even if you were to kill the baby, a baby is still a baby. You technically can't predict the future and know from a baby it's gonna become an Adolf Hitler. A baby born would just be... a baby?
I don't know.. that's just how I feel...
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