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MSH-Hitman
Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 4481
Location: Florida
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 Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| I wasn't really counting the charting as that can be really subjective and both games have songs with awkward charts or charts that were dumbed down (I think it was Stricken in GH which was really awkward and because of the backlash against in, the RB version was ridiculously easy). For me, it's still no contest. I wasn't saying that as including every-bodies opinions, just mine in terms of the games. RB has not done anything better for me, aside from just having DLC. I'd chose nearly any GH game over any RB game. |
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ComicBookGuru
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 1678
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:58 am Post subject: |
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Just wanted to say that I went back and looked at VGChartz for some data, and it turns out GHWoR IS indeed outselling RB3 worldwide. In America, though, RB3 has a very significant lead.
Of course it's a result of the downturn in rhythm gaming, but 1.6 million copies (GHWoR) and 1.41 million copies (RB3) is still very healthy, or at least enough to generate a return. I do recall one investor/analyst suggesting that spaced out releases and DLC couldn't bring the genre back to where it once was, but it could level out the downturn and let the genre still yield steady returns. I'm thinking that's valid at this point.
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Yep, I learned through Rocksmith! |
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Exxucus
Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 928
Location: Daein
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| ComicBookGuru wrote: | | Of course it's a result of the downturn in rhythm gaming, but 1.6 million copies (GHWoR) and 1.41 million copies (RB3) is still very healthy, or at least enough to generate a return. I do recall one investor/analyst suggesting that spaced out releases and DLC couldn't bring the genre back to where it once was, but it could level out the downturn and let the genre still yield steady returns. I'm thinking that's valid at this point. |
Agreed completely. While it may never return to GH III days, the rhythm genre can easily be a solid franchise if not abused. The last several times I've been to my gamestop I've overheard people looking into Singstar, Dance Central, and, in particular, Band Hero. These games are still generating interest, even if they aren't flying off the shelves.
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| How Awesome GHWoR Is wrote: | | Yeah they were. It's amazing how I had an almost naked lady rubbing her boobs on my head (I'm the drummer in the video) and I was like "Hey GTFO I'm trying to play". |
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WhYYZ
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 3150
Location: The netherlands, Amsterdam
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| Tagrineth wrote: | | Quote: | | I actually meant seeing the gameplay like a stream. |
0% chance of this. Way too much bandwidth required. there's no way this would happen on Xbox Live or PSN.
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Not really, PFO is doing the same thing. You can see where and if the other guy fuckes up of not.
Can't believe I forgot this: No activation lag online.
I still don't understand why every post GH5 game has this.
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wah543
Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| I think for a successful reboot they shouls do a remake of GH3 not like GHSH, but make an entire remake of the game every songs redone with a full band every main song, co op encore song, and extra song, and maybe even the DLC songs (Dragonforce pack in particular) |
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elScarecrow 
Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Raleigh
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| wah543 wrote: | | I think for a successful reboot they shouls do a remake of GH3 not like GHSH, but make an entire remake of the game every songs redone with a full band every main song, co op encore song, and extra song, and maybe even the DLC songs (Dragonforce pack in particular) |
ooh yeah, and as the side game they could finally put out GH: Ace of Spades
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Smaller dreams get pushed aside
For larger ones that change my life |
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wah543
Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| elScarecrow wrote: | | wah543 wrote: | | I think for a successful reboot they shouls do a remake of GH3 not like GHSH, but make an entire remake of the game every songs redone with a full band every main song, co op encore song, and extra song, and maybe even the DLC songs (Dragonforce pack in particular) |
ooh yeah, and as the side game they could finally put out GH: Ace of Spades |
I'm just saying, I it would be a good game |
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The-B.O.D.
Joined: 20 Dec 2008
Posts: 2413
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| wah543 wrote: | | elScarecrow wrote: | | wah543 wrote: | | I think for a successful reboot they shouls do a remake of GH3 not like GHSH, but make an entire remake of the game every songs redone with a full band every main song, co op encore song, and extra song, and maybe even the DLC songs (Dragonforce pack in particular) |
ooh yeah, and as the side game they could finally put out GH: Ace of Spades |
I'm just saying it would be a good game |
Usually when a developer is gonna "reinvent" something, a rehash of an older game is not the best idea. |
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ComicBookGuru
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 1678
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| The-B.O.D. wrote: | | wah543 wrote: | | elScarecrow wrote: | | wah543 wrote: | | I think for a successful reboot they shouls do a remake of GH3 not like GHSH, but make an entire remake of the game every songs redone with a full band every main song, co op encore song, and extra song, and maybe even the DLC songs (Dragonforce pack in particular) |
ooh yeah, and as the side game they could finally put out GH: Ace of Spades |
I'm just saying it would be a good game |
Usually when a developer is gonna "reinvent" something, a rehash of an older game is not the best idea. |
Yeah, we already have enough old Guitar Hero. While they're certainly welcome to keep the old style of gameplay in the new game, it needs to be drastically reinvented so that people take notice again.
Oh, and also, don't manufacture so much hardware if you have even the slightest inkling that it won't sell as much as you think. If people start clamoring for it, produce more. If not, pull a GH1 and just put out limited amounts until it catches on.
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Tagrineth 
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 2197
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| WhYYZ wrote: | | Tagrineth wrote: | | Quote: | | I actually meant seeing the gameplay like a stream. |
0% chance of this. Way too much bandwidth required. there's no way this would happen on Xbox Live or PSN.
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Not really, PFO is doing the same thing. You can see where and if the other guy fuckes up of not.
Can't believe I forgot this: No activation lag online.
I still don't understand why every post GH5 game has this. |
Except PFO is only visible to you and the people you're currently playing with/against. The moment you add spectators you're radically increasing bandwidth requirements.
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Jleggy12
Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 1383
Location: Staffordshire, England
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Blashyrkh
Joined: 29 Aug 2010
Posts: 65
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:26 pm Post subject: Hmmmm |
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The buzzword I've noticed looking through seven pages of posts is "reinvent".
And my question to everyone who mentioned that word is how do you reinvent a game that has had the exact same gameplay since day one? The basic tenet of gameplay has not changed and will never change.
Personally, Guitar Hero should only have a character creator and a dozen locations, modelled on famous clubs or locations. And the music. That's it. Putting a storyline in GH was a dumb idea and wasted valuable disc space that could have gone to more songs.
If GH wants to survive it needs to go back to basics. Focus on the music. I don't get a hard-on from listening to Gene Simmons reciting some bullshit, or helping imaginary "deacon of popular music defeat some generic monster" or earning 40 stars.
I get a hard on from playing some of the best music ever written.
As long as GH continues to direct focus away from this most important facet of the game, it will continue to decline.
/drunken rant. |
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ComicBookGuru
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 1678
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:46 am Post subject: |
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So ay back when, in Game Informer's review of Guitar Hero: World Tour, they said:
| Quote: | | If World Tour has a trump card, it's the groundbreaking new GHMix studio mode. It's basically a full-on set of music creation software, that allows you to write, arrange, and record your own songs, then upload them to be freely shared with fellow players. Even better, the game instantly translates them into fully playable jewels charts on the fly. As much fun as I had tackling ''Hot For Teacher,'' this mode feels like the future of the franchise. |
(And yes, I remember that from way back when. No, I was not reading old World Tour reviews for fun. Sorry.  )
So I was thinking about this today (randomly!), and came up with (well, I thought it was one, anyways) a pretty interesting idea: combine the sound analyzing technology and level-up level-down system of Rocksmith with the ingenuity and slick interface of GHTunes.
Imagine plugging a guitar into your console and learning a new song in the game, playing with the pedals (again, a la Rocksmith), then heading into the studio and recording individual parts, playing again with amps, pedals, and effects, mixing and cutting into proper stems, and having the game automatically create the note track for you (think about it: if the game was already able to translate audio to notes in-game, it could theoretically do the same thing in the studio!). Then, create drum and bass samples using MIDI (of course, then the drums would sound good, but for bass, it would depend on the on-disc samples). Then, compress it and upload it!
What exactly am I trying to get at here? I'm theoretically saying Guitar Hero: LittleBigPlanet. If you base the game around the community, and give the community amazing tools to create with, then the community will create. But having the created content help you to learn an instrument is only heard of in RBN's PRO Keys and PRO Drums. PRO Guitar will unfortunately probably never be offered; this would be the new developer's chance to shine. Of course there are barriers, as there are with any new project; bandwidth, legal issues, etc; but if Activision is serious about reinventing this franchise, then they have to take some risks.
But GHTunes is only one part of a massive game; how do you make the rest of the game center around this content? Well, I saw in another thread someone (sarcastically) remarking about how the next GH "would make it easier than ever for plastic guitar heroes to transfer their skills to a real guitar". But why couldn't they? Let's have a look at Rocksmith and Rock Band 3's difficulties. Rocksmith gradually levels you up to teach, while Rock Band 3 has four set difficulties. While going from difficulty to difficulty in Rock Band 3 might be difficult, Rocksmith allows you to swing back and forth. So how can the two be combined in a way that allows Guitar Hero to be unique and different, yet somehow incredibly similar? Well, combine the two! Start out by letting players pick one of the six difficulties: Beginner, Easy, Medium, Hard, Expert, or Expert+. These will start you off in 20% intervals, so: 0% difficulty (where you'd start off in Rocksmith), 20%, 40%, 60%, 80%, and 100% (the full chart). Then, include the leveling up and leveling down system, but never let it go below the target difficulty. But you have to include the option to; so allow for a lot of options in the menus (level down below target level, etc.). Also let the user define what exactly constitutes enough to level down or level up. By factoring user control into every facet of the game and giving each individual more control over their guitar learning experience, it makes the game a more comfortable fit for them.
Of course, we can't forget the standard five-button gameplay! We'd be leaving a lot of users out in the dust if we did. First off, for the new controller (if they make one), let's go back and dig out an old concept that Harmonix decided to drop for Guitar Hero I: pressure-sensitive frets. Make it half like the whammy bar, and half required for gameplay (much like, I add, the touch strip). Make the pressure of the frets (and how about the strum bar, too, just for the heck of it) dictate the volume that the song is played at. This again ties into the idea of giving the end user a more complete control over their experience.
Second, add audio bends. We've seen this concept before in the form of hammer-ons from another note (or a pull-off, for that matter). So how can you factor this into gameplay without a complete redesign of the controller? Well, we can go back to the previous idea of using the pressure sensitive frets; for example, having standard pressure on one fret followed by moving pressure to one other side of the fret, depending on the direction of the bend. This adds a bit more immersion to the experience and makes the gameplay more unique and challenging without having to resort to crazy songs (but that's not to say those songs aren't allowed!). The one problem that there is, however, is using the old guitars (let's say a GH3 Les Paul, for example). The game could automatically make bends go one way and just require that while the note is held, the whammy is pressed, or use a similar mechanism to that; this allows users to still experience the new features while simultaneously providing a slight reason to upgrade to a new guitar controller.
Extend the creativity to a challenge creator. Don't advertise this as a major feature, but allow people to take a controller, go back and highlight certain sections or notes and create challenges based on that, name them, and upload them. Think of it like Halo's Forge: you take something that already exists within the game (or DLC), and create new features for it. This would extend the shelf life of a LOT of songs. Or, alternatively, create generic challenges (hit all F#5 chords! Nail all the Blue/Green notes! Stuff like that) and be able to apply it to any song you like. It's extending the period of time that you spend with the game that will make it great for everybody.
Kick me in the teeth all you want, but eschew drums, vocals, and keyboards for this new game. Return to the old concept of guitar and bass only. And you know what that means- make your cable or cables support real bass guitars. Speaking of support, make sure that your new game natively supports both the Mustang and the Squier, and add an algorithm that converts chords to Mustang form on the fly. Sure, it might not end up pretty all of the time, but neither did using Rock Band drums on a Guitar Hero game.
Of course, if you want the users that you're trying to pull in to stay, revamp the interface and graphics too. Bring it back to Guitar Hero II graphics, with the menu interface of GH5, with a menu look of GH3. GH5 was the epitome of Guitar Hero swag, and bringing it back can't hurt at all.
I guess I'll post more if I have more. :p
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yksi-kaksi-kolme
Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 2803
Location: philly skramzzzz
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:35 am Post subject: |
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Yes please. GHTunes is a huge part of GHWoR endgame for me, and I would LOVE to see it fleshed out more than it is (gtfo note limit, custom chord builder plz). Admittedly, I haven't been paying as much attention to it lately because of my cheevo quest, but once I get every achievement for every GH/RB game I'll be avidly using it again.
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GregoryZero 
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 2338
Location: California
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| yksi-kaksi-kolme wrote: | | Yes please. GHTunes is a huge part of GHWoR endgame for me, and I would LOVE to see it fleshed out more than it is (gtfo note limit, custom chord builder plz). Admittedly, I haven't been paying as much attention to it lately because of my cheevo quest, but once I get every achievement for every GH/RB game I'll be avidly using it again. |
It's stemmed quite a community over such a seemingly small feature in the game. Just imagine what could be possible if it was fleshed out even more. That would be fantastic.
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