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slfan68
Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 656
Location: Pink Hill, NC
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 Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| ghp0wn3r wrote: | | youhas wrote: | | If there's someone who can't be rehabilitated, I see no real difference between killing them and locking them up and throwing away the key. In both cases, they won't be bothering me and mine anymore.) |
This. I recently (three months ago) experienced the death of my girlfriend's father due to a motor vehicle crash in which the driver of the van fell aslep at the wheel, while intoxicated, and to top it all off, texing while driving. Oh, AND going thirty miles over the speed limit. awesome. |
I'm honestly not trying to be an ass, but how was the driver texting while asleep at the wheel?
Anyways, I disagree with the death penalty because it basically makes us murderers. Do I think there are people who deserve to die? Yes, but I don't think it's our place to decide whether or not they should die.
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ghp0wn3r
Joined: 09 Sep 2008
Posts: 211
Location: Concord, NH
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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Haha no worries, we had to have it explained to us too. She was texting on her phone, but while in mid-text, (i guess), she fell asleep at the wheel due to a combination of drowsiness and the alcohol.
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Fhdra
Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 532
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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Well, since no one deserves to die, this really can't be argued 
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raynebc
Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 992
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Precipitated murder that isn't to protect your own or somebody else's life warrants a death sentence. This especially goes for mass homicide. |
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ready2rock
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 1738
Location: somewhere in this vast universe
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Fhdra wrote: | | Well, since no one person or group has any right to say if someone deserves to die, this really can't be argued |
If you add the bold phrase, I completely agree with this.
To me, it presents more of an ethical dilemma if someone wants to die.
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conlan22 
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 1542
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| no, the wrong part comes in when you are deciding that someone actually deserves to die. |
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Vampyromaniac
Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 1216
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:33 am Post subject: |
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Is it really so pretentious / maniacal to say that another person who has committed premeditated murder on multiple individuals with no defensible reasoning and admits he would do it again is a person that deserves to die? Why should we waste resources keeping him alive and unhappy in jail? If they die, they are no longer a burden on our society, and just because people want revenge on the criminals is no reason to wish a life sentence upon them rather than a death sentence.
Now, as for the actual COST of a death sentence, that kind of defeats the entire purpose. By making it so expensive, we are making them an even bigger burden on society. Ridiculous.
Also, if you think dying is preferable to life in prison, you're a pretty weak-willed individual. Prison life in the 21st century is probably better than working-class (see: pretty much everybody) from even a single century ago, and those people were thankful for life, just like a prisoner is thankful when he avoids the death sentence, even knowing a life in jail is ahead.
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raynebc
Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 992
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:19 am Post subject: |
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I think the opposite: It's pretentious to claim that under no circumstance does anybody deserve to be put to death. Is genocide bad enough for somebody to deserve to die?
At the very least, if people aren't going to be locked away forever, they should have to work HARD to pay for their incarceration expenses. They don't deserve a free ride with all of their needs and wants taken care of. If they won't work, make them live on gruel with nutritional supplements in a cell with no freedom to do anything at all. |
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youhas 
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 3015
Location: Santa Clara, CA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| Vampyromaniac wrote: | | Is it really so pretentious / maniacal to say that another person who has committed premeditated murder on multiple individuals with no defensible reasoning and admits he would do it again is a person that deserves to die? Why should we waste resources keeping him alive and unhappy in jail? If they die, they are no longer a burden on our society, and just because people want revenge on the criminals is no reason to wish a life sentence upon them rather than a death sentence. |
A main problem with this, if you will, is that we don't really have a category of homicide greater than "first-degree murder". The number of cases that involve openly remorseless killers laughing in the face of the court system and vowing to do so again if given the opportunity is laughably small. (If there were more of them, sure: you could have "zeroth-degree cartoonish super-murder", let the max penalty be instant group stoning, and call it a day.) The vast bulk of first-degree murder charges are far less clear-cut: there are observers speaking for both sides, and circumstantial evidences, and "expert witnesses" sagely spelling out contradictory theories. In those cases, you pretty much max out at "yeah, this person probably did do the dirty deed... though we're only super pretty sure, and really have no idea whether they'd do it again if given the chance." (Always weird to see 70-year-old dudes in jail, incarcerated for the last 50 years, no longer a threat to anyone, who ended up in jail 'cuz they owned a gun and ran in on some dude boning their wife. That's always a mixed-bag sort of "well, what do we do with this guy?" response.)
| raynebc wrote: | | At the very least, if people aren't going to be locked away forever, they should have to work HARD to pay for their incarceration expenses. They don't deserve a free ride with all of their needs and wants taken care of. If they won't work, make them live on gruel with nutritional supplements in a cell with no freedom to do anything at all. |
If it makes you feel any better, most prison experiences suck more than enough that most individuals want no part with them. I mean, if prisoner living was such a cushy experience, you'd see all sorts of folks in mediocre straits - people lapsing into foreclosure, or being unemployed for more than eight straight months - lining up for the opportunity to commit 'soft' felonies and be put into penal care, yes? Whereas in realty, people really value their freedom and autonomy - where only in the most extreme sorts of "I am homeless, penniless, and apt to die without immediate medical attention" scenarios do you see super-desperate individuals settling for such a Faustian bargain. (Whether this is a function of support networks failing or incarceration conditions being nigh-horrifying will be left as an exercise to the reader.)
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ghp0wn3r
Joined: 09 Sep 2008
Posts: 211
Location: Concord, NH
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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^ yeah, well....oh wait, there's absolutly no point youhas didn't cover already :P
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PiemanLK
Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 4711
Location: /export/home
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Vampyromaniac wrote: | | Is it really so pretentious / maniacal to say that another person who has committed premeditated murder on multiple individuals with no defensible reasoning and admits he would do it again is a person that deserves to die? |
It doesn't really have anything to do with pretension. It just doesn't make sense that we're murdering someone for murdering someone. How is that supposed to teach a lesson besides "murdering is okay when the State does it"?
It's also not consistent with punishments throughout the rest of the legal system. Every single person who breaks the law in any other way gets probation, community service, jail time, fines, or some combination of those. Murder is the only crime we have the death penalty for. We don't stab people who have committed assault and battery, we don't rape rapists, we don't steal from thieves, and so on and so on. What about murder warrants the eye for an eye treatment? Which, as we all know, makes the whole world blind.
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raynebc
Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 992
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| PiemanLK wrote: | | What about murder warrants the eye for an eye treatment? Which, as we all know, makes the whole world blind. |
Eye for an eye leaves criminals and their victims blind. |
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Yewb 
Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 3020
Location: Plymouth, UK
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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I shagged an adulterer's wife once. EYE FOR AN EYE, MOTHERFUCKERS.
... This didn't happen. But I've always wondered how "eye for an eye" works with adultery.
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| expertwin wrote: | | ShadoWolf wrote: | | expertwin wrote: | | I just want to, you know, get my name out there. BTW, it updates every Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Was just the first two, decided to do Saturdays as well. |
Serious advice now: No-one likes indecision in their work, so find what you like that you're even remotely good at, and stick with it. Don't flit from one thing to another, because that just smacks of a large lack of determination and drive. And people don't like you for that, and won't remember you for it. I mean, I get that you have a plucky spirit and a willingness to try new things, but there's a limit, man. |
I might knock it down to just Thursday and Friday. |
| JOE2210 wrote: | | Leave me alone, I have been drinking and your made up words mean nothing to me. |
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LethalFishEater
Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 2000
Location: I have less posts than bjw, who cares where I am.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| PiemanLK wrote: | | We don't stab people who have committed assault and battery, we don't rape rapists, we don't steal from thieves, and so on and so on. |
Yeah, that's what the prisons are for.
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blingdomepiece
Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 4358
Location: Ottawa ON Canada
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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The death penalty is not about justice, it is about vengeance. I guess it comes down to what kind of society you want.
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