| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
ready2rock
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 1738
Location: somewhere in this vast universe
|
 Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:38 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Keep in mind that I have not read the rest of the thread, just the OP. Also keep in mind that this is coming from a Christian.
1. America? Yes. Our political procedures? No. It's not the people who think something is wrong with these types of things, it's TV. It's not the people who will say that they would have no values as an atheist, it's the politicians. I personally have absolutely no problem with it, but in a political system where you have to come up with the worst possible attacks on your opponent in order to even have a chance, I don't see it ending well.
3. Keep in mind that it's yet again TV, and there are probably very few people who actually have a problem with it, but that's not good for viewership for the local news is it? If buses can advertise that Obama is a Socialist (which I have no idea how people can still believe that), then there is absolutely no problem with it in my eyes.
4. Fox News is ignorant and biased. In other news, there is currently snow outside in the winter.
Edit: People, PLEASE keep in mind that this is not about where people get their morals from.
Also, on the "war on Christmas": guess which news organization came up with that term?
To the OP: If you judge Americans by what you see on TV, you're not going to get a very good impression of us. I almost don't want to link him because I do so much, but you really should watch this. Because of how bad the news organizations have become in this country, a guy on comedy central is becoming one of, if not the, most trusted name in news. Seriously.
_________________
 
 
REREAD YOUR POSTS BEFORE YOU SUBMIT THEM!!!
Posts that win: this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this whole thread, this, these, this, this |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
sadied0g 
Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 716
Location: Fair Oaks, California
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
What I've never understood is how someone can completely straight out call themselves an atheist. I completely understand agnosticism, as their really is no proof for or against. Science may point towards their being no God, but there is absolutely no way to no for sure. If you feel you are an atheist is there at least a small part of you wondering what if. And the way I see it, if when you die, nothing happens and you're gone forever, it can't hurt to believe in a heaven, in the very off-chance that you may end up there. (This is not the way I see it, I've just always wondered why so many atheists find any religious person laughable)
More on topic: I consider myself a christian, but I still think it's horrible that we can't be accepting enough as people to allow people who are different to do as they please. Gays marry? Why not, it's not affecting us. Atheist leader? Well, being able to pray to God doesn't seem like it's as important as who will lead the country best. Again I'm a christian, but I see how close-minded many religious people are, and find it pretty insulting to God himself. If God created everyone and all things, why would we choose to reject some of his creations as christians? The biggest lesson of the bible is to love, and spread the word of god. Hating or excluding certain groups of people is not a good way to show the love of God.
Tl;dr: 1. I don't understand how anyone is sure of themselves as an atheist.
2. I am a christian, yet find many religious people's close mindedness ridiculous
_________________
Hylian Hero13 on XBL, I Started playing GH in June 07
  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fugitive 
Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 3035
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| sadied0g wrote: | | What I've never understood is how someone can completely straight out call themselves an atheist. I completely understand agnosticism, as their really is no proof for or against. Science may point towards their being no God, but there is absolutely no way to no for sure. If you feel you are an atheist is there at least a small part of you wondering what if. And the way I see it, if when you die, nothing happens and you're gone forever, it can't hurt to believe in a heaven, in the very off-chance that you may end up there. (This is not the way I see it, I've just always wondered why so many atheists find any religious person laughable) |
1. Your definition of atheism/an atheist is completely wrong. Here, read this: http://imgur.com/xXuNC
Most atheists are also agnostics. Yes, you can be both. Many Christians are agnostics as well, though most seem to be gnostic and I have talked to many gnostic atheists.
2. Pascal's wager (belief to be safe, though you didn't outright called that Pascal's wager) is ridden with fallacies. The two most notable being:
a) What if your use of reason to deduce that there is probably no god (a gift of reason a choice he supposedly gave us) is what allows you into heaven?
b) Wouldn't a god know you're beliving in him just to be safe if that was your reason?
@r2r - Though I appreciate where you're coming from, I don't think the idea of Americans from foreigners is all that wrong. Do you live in the Bible belt? Because I do. Most religious people are not as accepting as you make them out to be. I catch a ton of shit for my atheism, all the time. Read my first post. There was a councilman in my state that was sued to not run for office because he was an atheist. There is literally zero tolerance and acceptance down south. I've lost friends over my beliefs. I've even gotten worse letter grades because of it and I'm currently appealing a grade to the dean of my school (it's not a religious university). A vast majority of Americans say they would not vote for an atheist. Atheists are the most hated group in America. BY FAR. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fudrick
Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 2372
Location: Orlando, Florida
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| sadied0g wrote: | | What I've never understood is how someone can completely straight out call themselves an atheist. |
Well it makes a lot more sense than completely straight out calling themselves Christians.
_________________
FC Goals: GH1 - 46 [43] | GH2 - 64 [63] | GH80's - 30 [29] | GH3 - 70 [68] | GHA - 41 [00] | GHWT - 85 [00] | GHM - 48 [10] | GHSH - 47 [00] | RB2 - 84 [02]
   
  
   |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ready2rock
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 1738
Location: somewhere in this vast universe
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
@Fugitive: Maybe I'm lucky in living in a middle class/upper middle class area in the midwest. I think people are pretty accepting here. I hope you can agree with me though that the TV networks make us look a lot worse than we actually are. I'd even go as far as to say they are part of the reason why some people are ignorant and unaccepting.
_________________
REREAD YOUR POSTS BEFORE YOU SUBMIT THEM!!!
Posts that win: this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this whole thread, this, these, this, this |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ace5993
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 1920
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well America is such a big country it really depends where you are. Some places are definitely as accepting as Europe is but there are a lot of places where it is pretty bad. I'm an athiest but I generally keep that to myself since I work at a church (not as part of the actual church mind you, just at the venue). But aside from that most people around where I live are either athiest, don't have a strong opinion on it themselves, or wouldn't care if you were an athiest.
In somewhere like Texas though... oh boy.
I wouldn't say the situation in America is exaggerated, but there are definitely quite a few places as advanced as anywhere religious tolerance wise among the sea of stupidity.
Also Fox news is probably the most accurate mainstream news provider in America, albeit with not too much competition. There's not ANY station even close to non-biased though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
arvain
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 3736
Location: 43' 14'' 03''' N, 0' 00'' 09''' E
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| sadied0g wrote: | | More on topic: I consider myself a christian, but I still think it's horrible that we can't be accepting enough as people to allow people who are different to do as they please. Gays marry? Why not, it's not affecting us. Atheist leader? Well, being able to pray to God doesn't seem like it's as important as who will lead the country best. Again I'm a christian, but I see how close-minded many religious people are, and find it pretty insulting to God himself. If God created everyone and all things, why would we choose to reject some of his creations as christians? The biggest lesson of the bible is to love, and spread the word of god. Hating or excluding certain groups of people is not a good way to show the love of God. |
Thank goodness, tolerance !! Believing in something, having your own opinions about sensitive topics, and not forcing them onto anyone.
Fugitive - wtf you live in a scary place  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PiemanLK
Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 4711
Location: /export/home
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ace5993
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 1920
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| PiemanLK wrote: | | ace5993 wrote: | | Also Fox news is probably the most accurate mainstream news provider in America |
Image |
1. That was a poll, not anyone's opinion on Fox News.
2. Not going to start a global warming debate but I'll definitely participate if someone makes a thread ;) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PiemanLK
Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 4711
Location: /export/home
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ace5993 wrote: | | 1. That was a poll, not anyone's opinion on Fox News. |
Did you miss the part where the poll equals more than 100%?
_________________
[quote=''Otend'']Id come up with a long post, but Pieman said what we are all thinking, as usual[/quote]
[quote=''youhas'']EDIT TO ADD: Hey, post #3000! Neat! I will eagerly anticipate my set of ScoreHero-branded steak knives within six to eight weeks.[/quote]
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ready2rock
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 1738
Location: somewhere in this vast universe
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-23-2010/the-parent-company-trap
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-november-10-2009/sean-hannity-uses-glenn-beck-s-protest-footage
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-august-19-2009/fox-news--the-new-liberals
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-june-3-2010/glenn-beck-airs-israeli-raid-footage
...and that's just page 1 of the search results of "fox news".
Edit: | PiemanLK wrote: | | ace5993 wrote: | | 1. That was a poll, not anyone's opinion on Fox News. |
Did you miss the part where the poll equals more than 100%? |
...on a poll about using false data.
_________________
REREAD YOUR POSTS BEFORE YOU SUBMIT THEM!!!
Posts that win: this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this whole thread, this, these, this, this |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
joekickass1234
Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 1436
Location: Cherry Hill NJ
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Just throwing this out there, I think it's pretty surprising that Atheists are the least trusted group in the US. I'm not trying to offend any Muslims here, but you'd think with the gross amount of prejudice against Muslims after 9/11 they would be, but go figure. I really don't see where the lack of trust is coming from, but all prejudices don't really make much sense.
_________________
Stone Head <----My Band, Check us out (Look us up on facebook and myspace too)
Bass Shredding?
If any one want to play some Left 4 Dead 1 or 2 on the PC, add me: joekickass1234
3926 0220 0199 1364 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iDoom
Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 647
Location: South Carolina
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:19 pm Post subject: Re: American Attitudes towards Atheism |
|
|
| Fugitive wrote: | | iDoom wrote: | | See that sentence I underlined? It's complete bullcrap. The term "separation of church and state" was coined in a private letter from Thomas Jefferson, and has since been taken way out of context. The original meaning of the phrase (Jefferson defined it in his letter) is that the government would not force people to be a certain religion like other countries did at that time, not that the government and religion would have to be separate. The founding fathers all encouraged belief in God to be present in government. Seriously, read some of their speeches. |
The First Amendment to the Constitution states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. Separation of Church and State bro. |
"The establishment clause has generally been interpreted to prohibit 1) the establishment of a national religion by Congress, or 2) the preference by the U.S. government of one religion over another."
That's a quote I pulled from wikipedia. It's also exactly what I was saying.
| Fugitive wrote: | | iDoom wrote: | Someone's never read the new testament. ^^
There's the account where Jesus stops people from stoning an adulteress, the accounts where Jesus condemns murder of any kind, and the account where God comes in a vision to Peter and tells him the food taboos have been lifted. I also don't remember anything about tattoos or Christmas trees in the bible. Trust me, I've read it. =P If you need verse references, I can provide them with a little searching. |
Someone's wrong about me and should stop making assumptions. ^^
I've read the Bible cover to cover. Granted, quite a few years ago now, but I still have knowledge of it. I maintain that I would be terrified of anyone who got their morals from it. We've now even pointed out a blatant contradiction already. Can we or can we not eat Shellfish? God says no in Leviticus, then tells Peter yes. That's just confusing when you're trying to take your morals. Seems like the omnipotent being should have had his mind made up and foreseen the westernization of morals. So yeah, still scared of anyone who truly gets their morals from this. Read up on the tattoos and trees, it's in there. Trust me, I've read it. =P I've helped you find the verses for reference: |
I deleted the verses, since they're long, but you've got my about the tree and tattoo thing. I guess I was wrong.
Anyways, I'm not entirely sure about why laws are changed from the old testament to the new testament. I think it's because as represented with the tearing of the veil in the temple at Jesus' crucifixion, people's relationship with God was changed. Therefore, people's relations with each other should change too. Therefore, forgiveness instead of retribution.
And I have no opinion on the food taboos, but from what I've read by biblical scholars, the food taboos were probably because most of the foods mentioned could endanger someone's health if not cooked properly (i.e. pork).
| arvain wrote: | | iDoom wrote: | | I'm offended by the thought that you are an idiot if you believe in religion. |
Well, noone said that here. And apparently, you missed what I said : it's not saying "baww you shouldn't believe in god, baww bawww !!!" .... it's just saying "it's OK if you don't, you don't HAVE to". |
Hey arvain. Go back and reread my post. Now read the sentence directly following the one you quoted (out of context) from me. Good job.
In response to the other quote you used from me, I'm not trying to force religion. I wasn't even trying to prove God or evangelize. I was just answering the questions on the OP.
Thanks voided. You got to arvain's post before I could edit it into mine.
_________________
Last edited by iDoom on Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:37 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
voidedalive2x
Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 7922
Location: jefferson city, MO
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| arvain wrote: | | iDoom wrote: | | I'm offended by the thought that you are an idiot if you believe in religion. |
Well, noone said that here. And apparently, you missed what I said : it's not saying "baww you shouldn't believe in god, baww bawww !!!" .... it's just saying "it's OK if you don't, you don't HAVE to". |
I don't think that was even directed at the people in this topic...
| Quote: | and you missed something else :
| iDoom wrote: | | If you need verse references, I can provide them with a little searching. |
| Gester wrote: | | This thread is NOT for debating the existance of God. |
| arvain wrote: | | you're free to believe in what you want, as long as you don't try to force it into other people |
kthxbai !! |
And...how did you get "Hey look I'm imposing my views on you!" from "Okay, what I said right before this might sound offensive, but I'm willing to back up my claims in there if you don't believe me"? (That isn't what he said, of course; I'm doing my own paraphrasing. But that definitely is what it sounded like.)
| Quote: | But anyway  I like gester's topic, hopefully it won't turn into a debate about different interpretations of... holy books. |
Oh, just say the Bible. That's really the only book that's going to be talked about in here unless people branch off into the Jewish and Muslim texts (whose names escape me at the time of this posting).
On-topic, do I think america would accept an Athiest President? I'd hope so. Would America become more non-religious in the future? not likely.
And hey, first GD post <_<
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
arvain
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 3736
Location: 43' 14'' 03''' N, 0' 00'' 09''' E
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| voidedalive2x wrote: | | I don't think that was even directed at the people in this topic... |
I know.
| voidedalive2x wrote: | | And...how did you get "Hey look I'm imposing my views on you!" from "Okay, what I said right before this might sound offensive, but I'm willing to back up my claims in there if you don't believe me"? (That isn't what he said, of course; I'm doing my own paraphrasing. But that definitely is what it sounded like.) |
Yes, but that's how I've heard other people starting from "I'm not an idiot if I think this way" to some other... "stronger" statements. But it doesn't matter, cause the basic point of this thread was the opposite anyway : people who do NOT believe are sometimes regarded as 2nd class citizens, which apparently was one of the reasons for this campaign. And to me, if those people in the video (especially from the tv) find this campaign shocking or anything.... they're just not acknowledging the fact that people ARE being "discriminated" for their lack of belief. (i was looking for a different word instead of discriminated, couldn't find it. sounds a bit too strong, but then again, if people are just as much scared of coming out as atheist, as they're to come out as gay...  there must be some real discrimination going!)
| Quote: | | Oh, just say the Bible. That's really the only book that's going to be talked about in here unless people branch off into the Jewish and Muslim texts (whose names escape me at the time of this posting). |
Most likely but you never know. (on a random note I've read a good part of the Bible... ughhh  regardless of what it was talking about and the credit i was giving to it, reading it was painful)
On another note, has this campaign (or others similar) been seen in some other places in the US ?
Last edited by arvain on Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Copyright © 2006-2024 ScoreHero, LLC
|
Powered by phpBB
|
![Inbox [ Login ]](templates/subSilver/images/icon_mini_message.gif){kind=icon}
Inbox [ Login ]
Search
Memberlist
Profile
Log in
