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THABEAST721  





Joined: 26 Dec 2007
Posts: 2000

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

f4phantom2500 wrote:
THABEAST721 wrote:
So I've found a pretty good routine at least I think so. Today I did 3 sets of 20 pushups, 3 sets of 5 pull ups (will do more but 5 is my limit right now), 3 sets of 25 dips, 3 sets of 30 second wall squats, 20 of these things where I kick, then get in a plank position for 10 seconds, stand back up and repeat. And before all this I did about 20 minutes of cardio. Maybe I should increase it I dunno but I got pretty sore today.


this looks pretty good, but there is a discrepancy in the intensity of your pushing exercises (push ups and dips) and your pulling exercise (pull ups). the issue here is that with so many reps on your pushing exercises, you're mostly building endurance. i would suggest you think about only doing a push up or a dip during any one workout, and do a harder variation so that you can't do as many reps (especially since you would otherwise be able to do more since you won't be doing 2 pushing exercises).

what kind of dips are you doing? when i do dips, i do them on a straight bar, bringing my chest as close down to the bar as possible (bottom of my chest touches my hands). feet never touch the floor. these are the kind of dips you want to build up to, as they will help prepare you for muscle ups. i assume you're doing an easier variation, because you're doing more dips than push ups, and this variation is harder than a standard push up.

as for push ups, i would say try hip push ups or maybe push ups with your feet pressed against a wall at shoulder level. the hip push up is much closer in difficulty to the pull up, while the wall push up is a bit harder than that.


if your goal is to just build muscular endurance, you can just keep doing what you're doing. but if you want to build strength, you're gonna have to move on to a harder pushing exercise. the pull up is perfect for you since you can only do 5. you can get a little extra core/lower back work on these by doing pull ups while holding an L position with your legs.


I want to have less fat. That's my number one goal, so maybe I should be doing more than 20 minutes of cardio. I probably should try a harder variation of push ups or dips though I agree. My triceps are one of my weakest parts on my body, so I want to get those stronger.

My goal is to have abs that show (get rid of my fat), and get just a bit stronger. I will do some serious lifting when I get back to school. I have changed my diet significantly in the last couple of months. I have been trying my best to get fruits and vegetables every day, and I haven't touched fast food in a good while, nor have I touched pop. I've been told diet is the main part of fat loss, so hopefully I'm doing something right.

EDIT: Oh yeah the dips I am doing are probably the simplest kind because my triceps are pretty weak. I just put my hands on an elevated surface (like a chair) and my feet on the ground, and do dips like that. I tried doing dips where I was hanging and my feet didn't touch the ground, but I couldn't do a single one. I think a good push up exercise for me would be putting my feet up on something (like a chair) because those REALLY do hurt. Doing 20 push ups was honestly not all that hard, so I know I should move on there. The pull ups yeah I can only do 5 of those both underhand and overhand. I have never heard of planks until this thread, but they seem to give me a good workout. Are those good for ab muscles? I have also been doing a short ab routine I found online along with the planks, but I do abs after I do all of this stuff.

Oh yeah one more thing... are there any exercises to increase your forearm muscle? I see people with pretty large forearms and can't tell if they like increased their muscle there or just weigh more than I do.
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f4phantom2500  





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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beast, for fat loss you're right diet is most important. but high intensity cardio will definitely help. by that i mean interval sprints (sprint 90% effort then walk back then immediately sprint again, do 6~12 sets), fast jump rope with legs together and as straight as possible, swimming is also good. jogging for 30 minutes just isn't intense enough to give you the highest metabolic boost. if you decide to take on sprinting, be VERY careful as it is quite easy to injure yourself if your body isn't well conditioned. also make sure you do an ample warm up. in fact, of all of the exercises i do, even though i haven't really had any serious injuries, sprinting has gotten me closer than anything else. i would suggest active stretching before, maybe some lunges and a few push ups, nothing too strenuous just enough to get the blood flowing and loosen up the legs, but also you want to be limber in the rest of your body because sprinting is a full body workout. jump rope and/or jumping jacks are also great warm up exercises. low jacks, in particular. i like to do alligator walking and a few pistol squats for sprint warm up as well.

for triceps id recommend diamond push ups for you. not only are they harder than normal push ups and focus on triceps, they also help to condition the ligaments in your wrists and elbows. make sure to keep your elbows close to your side throughout the exercise. alternatively, tiger bend push ups (on the floor, not the handstand version) are killer for the triceps, but a little harder. if u do these, keep the elbows n as with the diamonds and also only do them on carpet or some other padding so as not to injure your elbows.

forearms are interesting. the definition you speak of is largely genetic, but you can train them with grip work. for this simply do fingertip push ups (or planks even), if those get easy you can always do one arm fingertip push ups or fingertip handstand against a wall. you can also hang from a towel. like put a towel over the pull up bar and just grab it. you can do pull ups like this but since you can't do many you should just spend a bit more time at the end hanging from the towel. if that gets easy just try hanging from the towel with one arm, lol.

planks are a great total core exercise, which means they work all of your core muscles, not just abs, in the way that they are meant to be worked - as unified stabilizers. the other benefit here is that, since you are working more muscles than with, say, crunches, you get a higher metabolic boost and thus a higher calorie burn.

working toward full hanging leg raises will also give you great core strength and build abdominal definition as your body fat goes down. furthermore, they are great to prepare you for the levers, if you ever decide to train for those.

if you're really serious about strong grip strength, check out these grippers

www.gillinghamhp.com/hg.htm
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Last edited by f4phantom2500 on Sat May 19, 2012 9:01 pm; edited 2 times in total
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blingdomepiece  





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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THABEAST721 wrote:
My goal is to have abs that show (get rid of my fat), and get just a bit stronger. I will do some serious lifting when I get back to school. I have changed my diet significantly in the last couple of months. I have been trying my best to get fruits and vegetables every day, and I haven't touched fast food in a good while, nor have I touched pop. I've been told diet is the main part of fat loss, so hopefully I'm doing something right.


Yes, diet is more important than exercise for fat loss. Restrict carbohydrates in general, especially restrict sugar (fruit is ok because the fiber helps counteract the sugar, fruit juice must be avoided) and white flour. Insulin hormone is what causes weight gain. Opinions vary on whether a low-fat or high-fat diet is healthier, so I won't push you hard in either direction, but cutting out sugar and white flour and restricting carbs in general should move you in the right direction. For visible abs you will probably have to be pretty strict.
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THABEAST721  





Joined: 26 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blingdomepiece wrote:
THABEAST721 wrote:
My goal is to have abs that show (get rid of my fat), and get just a bit stronger. I will do some serious lifting when I get back to school. I have changed my diet significantly in the last couple of months. I have been trying my best to get fruits and vegetables every day, and I haven't touched fast food in a good while, nor have I touched pop. I've been told diet is the main part of fat loss, so hopefully I'm doing something right.


Yes, diet is more important than exercise for fat loss. Restrict carbohydrates in general, especially restrict sugar (fruit is ok because the fiber helps counteract the sugar, fruit juice must be avoided) and white flour. Insulin hormone is what causes weight gain. Opinions vary on whether a low-fat or high-fat diet is healthier, so I won't push you hard in either direction, but cutting out sugar and white flour and restricting carbs in general should move you in the right direction. For visible abs you will probably have to be pretty strict.


I don't mean like visible abs like I'm just standing there not flexing, and I look like a model. I mean like if I actually flexed my stomach, you could see them. Because I know I already have pretty good abs, but there is a big pile of fat covering them up.
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f4phantom2500  





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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THABEAST721 wrote:
blingdomepiece wrote:
THABEAST721 wrote:
My goal is to have abs that show (get rid of my fat), and get just a bit stronger. I will do some serious lifting when I get back to school. I have changed my diet significantly in the last couple of months. I have been trying my best to get fruits and vegetables every day, and I haven't touched fast food in a good while, nor have I touched pop. I've been told diet is the main part of fat loss, so hopefully I'm doing something right.


Yes, diet is more important than exercise for fat loss. Restrict carbohydrates in general, especially restrict sugar (fruit is ok because the fiber helps counteract the sugar, fruit juice must be avoided) and white flour. Insulin hormone is what causes weight gain. Opinions vary on whether a low-fat or high-fat diet is healthier, so I won't push you hard in either direction, but cutting out sugar and white flour and restricting carbs in general should move you in the right direction. For visible abs you will probably have to be pretty strict.


I don't mean like visible abs like I'm just standing there not flexing, and I look like a model. I mean like if I actually flexed my stomach, you could see them. Because I know I already have pretty good abs, but there is a big pile of fat covering them up.


the advice is the same either way; the better combination of diet and exercise you have the better your results will be.
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THABEAST721  





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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question: If I do little bits of exercise all throughout the day that adds up to more reps than doing one big exercise for like an hour or so, would that give me more results?
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f4phantom2500  





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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

THABEAST721 wrote:
Question: If I do little bits of exercise all throughout the day that adds up to more reps than doing one big exercise for like an hour or so, would that give me more results?


that method is known as 'greasing the groove'. its a great way to build proficiency in an exercise you aren't good at, and/or to get a little extra specific work. for example, you could bust out bench dips randomly throughout the day, getting better at the exercise until you can do them without having to keep your feet on the ground.

while this method does work for this application, for overall conditioning it is typically better to have a regular workout. i only do a full workout every other day. i do 4 sets of 6~12 reps of 3~5 exercises, depending on how intense each one is. you want to keep rest in each complete set minimal, i try to get a quick drink of water between exercises, then take a longer breather at the end of the set. try to keep it down to like 30 seconds maybe a minute. depending on the exercises this takes me anywhere from say 20 to 45 minutes maybe an hour if you include warm up and cool down. again, every other day, because your body needs sufficient time to rest from something so vigorous.

so, greasing the groove can work by itself, but for best results you still need a regular workout. however, your results can be accelerated with gtg because if it enables you to do a more advanced exercise sooner, hen you can add it to your regular routine sooner. but you have to be careful not to overtax any specific muscle or muscle group. all you need to do for this is to take it a little easy on the muscles that are getting worked in your gtg exercise.
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THABEAST721  





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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I experimented with some one arm pushups today. I was able to do 5 with each arm, and I started sweating after that. It was pretty cool because I've seen people on movies and stuff do them, and I thought it would be cool to be able to do them myself. I was able to do 8 pull ups as well. I can't wait to get back to school and see how much this stuff has improved my weightlifting ability.
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Dodongo  





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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, after a lot of confusion and generally not knowing who to believe, I have deduced that for the most part, something different works for everyone. This is why, instead of going with 6 meals a day or whatever (which I, being an 18yo living at home, haven't the money to undertake), I fast. On non workout days, I have one huge meal - dinner, and then when I sleep I'm not hungry. On workout days, (ie weightlifting and cardio as opposed to just cardio) I will eat a big breakfast too (yay for carbs :> ). It's pretty shit, won't lie, but I'll let you know how it turns out.

This is not a long term thing, btw, I am aware it is quite unhealthy. I started working out in March with the intention of building, and now that I have built what I desired, I am cutting the excess bodyfat for a holiday at the start of July, because just ONCE in my life I want to be that guy, the guy with the rip roaring bod. Hopefully this works out how I want it to.
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f4phantom2500  





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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THABEAST721 wrote:
I experimented with some one arm pushups today. I was able to do 5 with each arm, and I started sweating after that. It was pretty cool because I've seen people on movies and stuff do them, and I thought it would be cool to be able to do them myself. I was able to do 8 pull ups as well. I can't wait to get back to school and see how much this stuff has improved my weightlifting ability.


interesting...how are you doing the one arm push ups? you should be able to do substantially more pull ups than good one arm push ups. the way you usually see them (e.g. the way stallone did them in rocky) is actually not ideal...this method has your elbow out away from your body and your legs really far apart, and the shoulders are usually not level with the floor. sometimes people also don't go down to when their chest is right above (or touching) the floor. now, for all i know, you are using good form and you are just inordinately good at push ups vs pull ups. but since the vast majority of people use poor form (because that's what's usually seen on tv/movies/etc), and knowing your pulling strength and difficulty with dips (that was you, right?), it seems more likely that you are using looser form.

first and foremost, the one arm push up should primarily be a tricep strengthening exercise. you want to have your elbow in so that it is in contact with your side throughout the exercise. to have your arm naturally maintain this range, put your hand on the floor with your 4 fingers pointing out from your body (left hand fingers pointing directly left, right hand right) and your thumb pointing up (toward the direction that the top of your head is pointing). arm in is critical to building strength with this exercise, as it not only focuses the press on the tricep, but the chest is better utilized for pressing and the shoulder is in a much more secure position. i was doing about 30 per night on each arm with elbow out, then once i started doing them with elbow in my shoulders felt much better. but, because this version is substantially more taxing and the shoulders are still used to stabilize, you still get a great shoulder workout. based on my experience, if you can't do them with your elbow in, it's not worth doing this exercise because there are two arm variations that are safer than the arm out variation and will certainly build strength toward arm in one arm push ups.

the next point is that it is ideal to have your shoulders level with the floor throughout the exercise. you will notice that, if you lean toward the pressing arm, the exercise becomes much more doable. really, you are cheating yourself out of strength gains. now, some disparity here is ok, but if you have a very considerable lean every time you do the exercise, i feel that, as with arm out, the exercise just isn't worth doing. on that note, you want your back to be straight in both planes - as if you were standing up straight, only in a push up position. if you "twist" toward one direction or the other, it's an indication of a lack of core strength. this, to me, feels fairly unsafe, similarly to the shoulder positioning of the arm out variation. not a total deal killer, but still...with the factors of shoulder and back leveling it is better to have your feet spread wider and be in proper alignment than to have your feet closer and bad alignment.

now, as for feet spread...ideally you want to have your feet shoulder width apart or closer. feet touching is ideal...lol...it is often assumed that this only affects balance...not so. as your body turns into a bipod from a tripod, your center of gravity is tightened. this not only increases the actual pressing strength necessary of the working arm, it also greatly increases the demands of the stabilizer muscles throughout your entire body, particularly the core musculature. this is why it is easier to lean on the pressing arm or twist your body, but not ideal. you *can* have your feet spread super wide (oh, and remember to do them on the balls of your feet/toes, not on the sides of your feet), and ultimately i feel this is the best sacrifice in form to make, however, again, if the exercise is so difficult that you have to put your feet super wide, there are probably other exercises you can work with to build the necessary strength here.

as far as range of motion, if you're not going to at least 90 degrees at the elbow, you're probably wasting your time.

exercises to build up to/help clean one arm push up form:

tiger bend push ups
diamond push ups
handstand push ups (as with one arm push ups, facing thumbs forward helps put the press on the tricep and secure the shoulder)
dips (rings > single bar > parallel bars > bench [feet supported])
bodyweight tricep extensions (of course you could do the weighted variety but the bodyweight version can be done anywhere).

hip push ups, pseudo planche push ups, and wall push ups are all great as well, but the aforementioned exercises focus more on the triceps, i feel. these also will help the triceps, just not as intently as the others. well i dunno the pseudo planche push ups are pretty tricep-centric.

one arm plank with feet together (arm centered with chest, fingers pointing toward feet and, if left hand, thumb pointed toward the left...trust me on this lol. focus on keeping your back straight in both planes.)

the other core exercises, of course, are great for building core strength, but i get the feeling the advanced one arm plank is probably the most apt for training core strength for one arm push ups.


yes, the form i describe here is VERY difficult, in fact i don't do this exercise in my training because i find it too difficult to maintain proper form when there are plenty of other push up variations that i can do cleanly.

if all you want to do is show off in front of your friends, then by all means bust out some arm out one arm push ups with your legs really wide and lean a lot...but if you're expecting substantial strength gains, you will have to step it up.

oh, one more tip. instead of maxing out on one side then doing the other, i'd suggest alternating each rep. this allows you to better keep good form and also will probably allow you to do more reps. it will probably also lower your risk of injury.

cleanest one arm push ups i've seen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9A9aM126Yo
-Jim Bathurst, www.beastskills.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRCAJbwjMs (1:00)
-Al Kavadlo, www.alkavadlo.com

if you want to get really technical, the form shown in these videos isn't "perfect"...but consider what else these guys can do and you will really understand how difficult this is.
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Pas26  





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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something I always wondered: would 5 3-minutes cardio session of say, jumping rope be as good as 15 straight minutes? I know the benefits arent the same, cardio-wise, but as far as getting your body active and burning calories... can both be considered equivalent?
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f4phantom2500  





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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pas26 wrote:
Something I always wondered: would 5 3-minutes cardio session of say, jumping rope be as good as 15 straight minutes? I know the benefits arent the same, cardio-wise, but as far as getting your body active and burning calories... can both be considered equivalent?


Probably not necessarily equivalent, but the most important thing is that you're doing it. 15 straight minutes of jumping rope with really strict form is far from easy (I doubt I could do it). The thing is, if you're jumping for that long, odds are your form is going to not be as tight as if you do smaller sets. It's like sprinting for 6 sets of 20 seconds vs just straight running for 120 seconds. You can't sprint for 120 continuous seconds because you will inevitably lose intensity (unless you are Captain America). So, if you mean several shorter sets of stricter form vs one longer set of looser form, each has its merits. I would say try both to see which works better for you, but the actual time spent in the shorter sets should be more intense (if you do this, I would suggest doing them in succession; do one set, walk for a minute or so, repeat until you're done, rather than doing 5 sets throughout the day...but again as long as you do it).
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yksi-kaksi-kolme  





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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to start going to the gym over the summer. My main goal is just to bulk up, not lose weight or anything. Can anyone recommend some good routines? This is what I used to do at the school's gym:

Mon, Wed, Fri: arms and chest

3 sets of bicep curls
3 sets of tricep... things (where you lay down, extend your arms up, and bring them down then back up)
3 sets of shoulder... things (arms at your side, bring them up)
3 sets of lat rows and that thing on the same machine as the lat row with the bar above you that you pull down behind your head
3 sets of pull ups
3 sets of bench presses
3 sets of push ups

I didn't really have a set number of reps, because my friend suggested I rep to absolute failure - where I physically CANNOT lift it anymore no matter how hard I try, not just being a little bitch and giving up if it got hard. Also I'm lacking chest exercises so if someone could help me out there that'd be cool.

Tues: abs
That tough P90x ab workout with the guy who makes the really weird analogies and the guy who has a robotic arm/leg (don't remember which). The thing about abs is that I have basically no stomach fat, so I could easily get a good-looking 6-pack, but I'm not sure if there'd be any strength behind it, like I doubt I could take a punch in the gut from a buff guy

Thurs: legs

I used machines a lot more than free weights for legs, so I don't know the names of all the exercises, but:

3 sets of this thing where you lay down on your stomach, put the machine's pad on the back of your calves, and lift up
3 sets on the same machine, just sitting and facing forward this time so it's on the front of the calves
3 sets of that thing where you put your feet against a big platform and push out, extending your legs against the resistance
3 sets of squats
3 sets of this exercise my friend showed me where you just hold free weights with your arms limp and raise up on your tiptoes over and over

That's about everything I can think of. So if anyone can help me improve my routine in a way aimed at bulking up, I'd really appreciate that. Also for supplements I just take whey protein. I am, however, diabetic, so I'm on insulin shots, I try to avoid taking them around the time I work out but if I want say a gatorade with the whey protein it's inevitable. Does anyone know the correlation between insulin and weightlifting? I know some people like to abuse insulin during workouts to get more weight or something along those lines?

Finally I'm 5'10" and 135 pounds, so I'm pretty underweight for my age. No matter how much I eat I never gain weight :U But that means that working against my body as resistance is easier for me than using weights. I can do a solid set of reps (6+) of bicep curls with 30 lbs, triceps with 20, and shoulders with 15. I've been trying to work my way up from that. Legs... usually I set the machines to 90 and do squats with 50 on each side.
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newuser1234  





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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yksi-kaksi-kolme wrote:
lots of stuff


the only thing i would recommend is maybe a dedicated lower back exercise like deadlifts if you know how to do them properly. also if you want to bulk up, do not lift to absolute failure...seriously i dont ever know when that's ever a good idea?? i would go for 3 sets x 8 reps where reps 6-8 give you some form of struggle. if the weight is too easy, move up.

EDIT: maybe do legs/abs tues and thurs...just one day of legs doesn't seem to cut it unless you want a huge upper body and chicken legs
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f4phantom2500  





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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

newuser1234 wrote:
yksi-kaksi-kolme wrote:
lots of stuff


the only thing i would recommend is maybe a dedicated lower back exercise like deadlifts if you know how to do them properly. also if you want to bulk up, do not lift to absolute failure...seriously i dont ever know when that's ever a good idea?? i would go for 3 sets x 8 reps where reps 6-8 give you some form of struggle. if the weight is too easy, move up.

EDIT: maybe do legs/abs tues and thurs...just one day of legs doesn't seem to cut it unless you want a huge upper body and chicken legs



Bulking will require you to eat a lot. Any kind of effective exercises will be fine but if you want to bulk you will have to eat more. Get lots of calories and lots of protein, and just generally eat healthy; lots of vegetables, etc.

For abs, the exercises I've outlined will be great. For legs consider adding some pistol squats because they're very effective and can be done anywhere at any time. They can be made extremely challenging as a strength builder by adding a very small amount of weight. Try doing one with just 25% of your bodyweight extra and you will see what I mean. It's pretty much the only leg exercise I do. For chest, hip push ups are great. Simply focus on squeezing your chest as you come up. I also find the arm in one arm push ups to be great for the chest, but of course it is quite difficult to execute properly. Super close grip chin ups and pull ups seem to do well for the chest, also. Other than that, you can do some of the other advanced calisthenics I've outlined or stick to your weights. It's up to you.

The difference in chest development from bodyweight exercises and weight lifting is that calisthenics will give you that lean athletic chest look, (check out Ryan Kwanten from True Blood...he does bodyweight training, or just look at gymnasts), while weight lifting will develop that big puffy chest look (I think everyone knows what this looks like). For your body type the former is probably more apt than the latter.
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Here''''''''s a playlist of my FC videos of the 7 hardest songs to FC in GH1...also Cheat on the Church:
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=4A83D02058247AC5
***subscribe plz*** (hint: playing along to vids can help you in GH1 ;) PM me if you need song/section-specific advice).

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