No Love for the Guitar Hero Vocalists

[Y2Grae]

I'm getting sick and tired really.

After latest "you would own at rock band" comment on my youtube vids, i've nearly reached breaking point.

When i got GH:WT there was one name at the top:

16.4million - Bananenbrot. Clear by a long long way.
He was top of overall band for quite some time.


I looked up to him, said if i could get 2nd close to him, i'd be proud. So i worked my socks off learning the nuances to the game, the activating late, the freeforms, the gaining sp from each phrase etc.

I climbed to 2nd, and with some encouraging help from other vocalists around me, was able to pass him. Till Kixxer (BOYOBOYY ) came along and really challenged me for every song. We'd battle and songs would go back and forth, usually with him trumping me by a bit.

Now take into account Matt GuitarHero (top 5 on WT and 1st on Metallica), Madlocustrising, and teddybear all broke 14million.
(this is xbox alone, i know there are good vocalists on the other systems too)

In recent tussle MisguidedGirl beat me on WT expert vocals, and Guitar Hailz is 2nd(at time of print) on Metallica. BrianBAM and Airshock too are very strong vocalists.

I've seen some of the RB vocal "superstars" on the GH scoreboards and i have to say i am unimpressed by the results. Yet they are treated in the vocal equivalent of GuitarPhenom, jameslikecrazy or ShonSuperStar.

[Y2Grae]

I'm getting sick and tired really.

After latest "you would own at rock band" comment on my youtube vids, i've nearly reached breaking point.

When i got GH:WT there was one name at the top:

16.4million - Bananenbrot. Clear by a long long way.
He was top of overall band for quite some time.


I looked up to him, said if i could get 2nd close to him, i'd be proud. So i worked my socks off learning the nuances to the game, the activating late, the freeforms, the gaining sp from each phrase etc.

I climbed to 2nd, and with some encouraging help from other vocalists around me, was able to pass him. Till Kixxer (BOYOBOYY ) came along and really challenged me for every song. We'd battle and songs would go back and forth, usually with him trumping me by a bit.

Now take into account Matt GuitarHero (top 5 on WT and 1st on Metallica), Madlocustrising, and teddybear all broke 14million.
(this is xbox alone, i know there are good vocalists on the other systems too)

In recent tussle MisguidedGirl beat me on WT expert vocals, and Guitar Hailz is 2nd(at time of print) on Metallica. BrianBAM and Airshock too are very strong vocalists.

I've seen some of the RB vocal "superstars" on the GH scoreboards and i have to say i am unimpressed by the results. Yet they are treated in the vocal equivalent of GuitarPhenom, jameslikecrazy or ShonSuperStar.

[richjohnny]

Comparing the games is like comparing Coke to Pepsi. They are both very good and everyone has their preference to which is better.

If people prefer Rock Band's Vocals, then they should just keep it that way, and not force people into Guitar Hero, and vice versa.

Rock Band's vocals is just easier, thats why people prefer it really.

It is really such a task to get 100% on the Guitar Hero games, you don't have anything that tells you how you're going in each of the phrases.

But I agree, give the Guitar Hero Vocallists some credit, the songs are really tough.
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The Living End and Barenaked Ladies...need moar of them in GH or RB!!

[richjohnny]

Comparing the games is like comparing Coke to Pepsi. They are both very good and everyone has their preference to which is better.

If people prefer Rock Band's Vocals, then they should just keep it that way, and not force people into Guitar Hero, and vice versa.

Rock Band's vocals is just easier, thats why people prefer it really.

It is really such a task to get 100% on the Guitar Hero games, you don't have anything that tells you how you're going in each of the phrases.

But I agree, give the Guitar Hero Vocallists some credit, the songs are really tough.
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The Living End and Barenaked Ladies...need moar of them in GH or RB!!

[Y2Grae]

At no point am i forcing anyone into Guitar Hero,

and thank you for your comments about the songs being tough.


Its just dissapointing to find the people getting more credit are those that do well at the generally concieved easier game than the harder one.

[Y2Grae]

At no point am i forcing anyone into Guitar Hero,

and thank you for your comments about the songs being tough.


Its just dissapointing to find the people getting more credit are those that do well at the generally concieved easier game than the harder one.

[Prong1978]

I think this is a case much like drums. Since Rock Band came out first, just about anybody interested in singing or drumming flocked to it. When World Tour came out with very different systems (of singing and drumming), many of these people who had were already plaing RB didn't make the switch.

I personally like Rock Band's drumming and singing better than GH's. However, I was far more impressed when I heard someone had gotten a FGFC in GH since I know how incredibly difficult that would be to do (whereas hundreds have done it in Rock Band). I can also see how being able to activate SP whenever you want to be a more ideal situation. I don't however, like freeform sections because in order to maximize points you're doing something that no singer would do in a live performance (right in the middle of an instrumental break you're going to slowly sing scales?).

Bottom line, the ability to do well in GH is more impressive than doing it in Rock Band (although that to is very impressive), but since there are more people into Rock Band vocals, it gets more notice. Rock Band drummers and bassists get more notice too.
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[Prong1978]

I think this is a case much like drums. Since Rock Band came out first, just about anybody interested in singing or drumming flocked to it. When World Tour came out with very different systems (of singing and drumming), many of these people who had were already plaing RB didn't make the switch.

I personally like Rock Band's drumming and singing better than GH's. However, I was far more impressed when I heard someone had gotten a FGFC in GH since I know how incredibly difficult that would be to do (whereas hundreds have done it in Rock Band). I can also see how being able to activate SP whenever you want to be a more ideal situation. I don't however, like freeform sections because in order to maximize points you're doing something that no singer would do in a live performance (right in the middle of an instrumental break you're going to slowly sing scales?).

Bottom line, the ability to do well in GH is more impressive than doing it in Rock Band (although that to is very impressive), but since there are more people into Rock Band vocals, it gets more notice. Rock Band drummers and bassists get more notice too.
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[Bananenbrot]

what i like about world tour is that it s much more about singing the right pitch than perfect sp activation. unfortunately this changed with metallica. they kept the freeforms but abandoned the motivating system that singing 91% of a pitch actually nets you 91% of the possible score. it s simply lame when the top 7 scores on beautiful mourning are all the same: 141k. there is no reason for me to sing this song ever again after reaching the optimal score... well, at least there is less reason as the song is actually fun to sing to.

[Bananenbrot]

what i like about world tour is that it s much more about singing the right pitch than perfect sp activation. unfortunately this changed with metallica. they kept the freeforms but abandoned the motivating system that singing 91% of a pitch actually nets you 91% of the possible score. it s simply lame when the top 7 scores on beautiful mourning are all the same: 141k. there is no reason for me to sing this song ever again after reaching the optimal score... well, at least there is less reason as the song is actually fun to sing to.

[DeusExProcella]

GH5 doesn't have freestyles. Woo or Noo?

[DeusExProcella]

GH5 doesn't have freestyles. Woo or Noo?

[GuitarHailz]

[GuitarHailz]

[BrianBAM19]

I wrote a shorthand version of this because I first didn't feel like posting this long version...but meh, here's what I was trying to say at first.

Prong makes good points. I think people who got into drumming, singing, and playing bass in rhythm games went to RB, simply because that came first(by over a year), and they grew to like RB so much that they just prefer it over GH. From what I've seen around SH, this side of the forums is still very guitar-centered(not surprisingly), and I rarely see any accomplishments posted about bass, drums, or vocals. The RB side has a good mix of all of the instruments getting attention.

As for the vocals, well, again, because RB came first by over a year with singing, nearly all of the singers(myself included) went to RB. RB's just grown to be the more popular engine and game for singers, hence why they would get more recognition. It just gets more attention. I'd be willing to bet if GH was the more popular game for vocalists, then things would be reversed.

Why do people prefer RB so much over GH? Again, I think it's because RB came first by a long while, people grew to love that, and it's just more preferred. I've also seen a lot of negative response to freeform sections, and as richjohnny said, RB has an easier engine, it's far more forgiving than GH. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people who have tried GH's engine just simply got frustrated with it, and in turn stopped playing on it, because it's so strict. Also, just because GH's engine is stricter doesn't mean RB is a cakewalk. RB has a ton of hard songs as well, both on-disc(Alive, TUiB, Spoonman, UU, OWOA, etc.) and DLC(All Right Now, They're Red Hot, AC/DC songs, Doin' That Rag).

I guess I've said enough as to why people don't prefer GH, I guess I should say why people would prefer GH. Why did I start playing Metallica vocals? I got tired of RB vocals, honestly. I didn't feel like there was anything else left in RB and RB2 that I wanted to do. I had 57 FC's on RB1, but I didn't feel like messing with the "ow" in Next to You, because it feels impossible to me. I FGFC'd RB2 on vocals, so all that was left for me to do was start squeezing vocals, which I can't stand. I prefer the strictness of GH vocals, but I like the challenge it presents. I don't care for freeforms myself, and I'm glad to hear they won't be around in GH5(if what I've heard is right). I started with WT, but I disliked the vocal system there. I got into Metallica because a) Metallica is one of my favorite bands, and the setlist is awesome, and b) the vocal engine appeals to me more than WT's did. Basically, to me there's pros and cons to both engines, and I like singing on both.

Lastly, there's plenty of singing talent on both sides of SH, the talent just happens to be in fewer numbers on this side, sadly. Just because there's a lot of talent on the RB side doesn't mean that there's no talent here, because I'm sure there's plenty.

EDIT: Aaaaaaaaaand Hailz basically beat me to the punch on all of my points.
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KoE wrote:

<KoE> she wanted to put the BAM in brianbam.

[BrianBAM19]

I wrote a shorthand version of this because I first didn't feel like posting this long version...but meh, here's what I was trying to say at first.

Prong makes good points. I think people who got into drumming, singing, and playing bass in rhythm games went to RB, simply because that came first(by over a year), and they grew to like RB so much that they just prefer it over GH. From what I've seen around SH, this side of the forums is still very guitar-centered(not surprisingly), and I rarely see any accomplishments posted about bass, drums, or vocals. The RB side has a good mix of all of the instruments getting attention.

As for the vocals, well, again, because RB came first by over a year with singing, nearly all of the singers(myself included) went to RB. RB's just grown to be the more popular engine and game for singers, hence why they would get more recognition. It just gets more attention. I'd be willing to bet if GH was the more popular game for vocalists, then things would be reversed.

Why do people prefer RB so much over GH? Again, I think it's because RB came first by a long while, people grew to love that, and it's just more preferred. I've also seen a lot of negative response to freeform sections, and as richjohnny said, RB has an easier engine, it's far more forgiving than GH. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people who have tried GH's engine just simply got frustrated with it, and in turn stopped playing on it, because it's so strict. Also, just because GH's engine is stricter doesn't mean RB is a cakewalk. RB has a ton of hard songs as well, both on-disc(Alive, TUiB, Spoonman, UU, OWOA, etc.) and DLC(All Right Now, They're Red Hot, AC/DC songs, Doin' That Rag).

I guess I've said enough as to why people don't prefer GH, I guess I should say why people would prefer GH. Why did I start playing Metallica vocals? I got tired of RB vocals, honestly. I didn't feel like there was anything else left in RB and RB2 that I wanted to do. I had 57 FC's on RB1, but I didn't feel like messing with the "ow" in Next to You, because it feels impossible to me. I FGFC'd RB2 on vocals, so all that was left for me to do was start squeezing vocals, which I can't stand. I prefer the strictness of GH vocals, but I like the challenge it presents. I don't care for freeforms myself, and I'm glad to hear they won't be around in GH5(if what I've heard is right). I started with WT, but I disliked the vocal system there. I got into Metallica because a) Metallica is one of my favorite bands, and the setlist is awesome, and b) the vocal engine appeals to me more than WT's did. Basically, to me there's pros and cons to both engines, and I like singing on both.

Lastly, there's plenty of singing talent on both sides of SH, the talent just happens to be in fewer numbers on this side, sadly. Just because there's a lot of talent on the RB side doesn't mean that there's no talent here, because I'm sure there's plenty.

EDIT: Aaaaaaaaaand Hailz basically beat me to the punch on all of my points.
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KoE wrote:

<KoE> she wanted to put the BAM in brianbam.

[Thirdkoopa]

[Thirdkoopa]

[samqwe]

I think singing in RB is less about competition but more about fun. I'm a occasional singer and I prefer RB's system. I like making noise in the Overdrive sections, I like the tambourine/cowball/clapping sections. In GH:WT you have to yell unnaturally in different scales in those strange freefill sections instead, doesn't make fun/sense in my opinion (and you can cheat on that system by playing on a keyboard).

[samqwe]

I think singing in RB is less about competition but more about fun. I'm a occasional singer and I prefer RB's system. I like making noise in the Overdrive sections, I like the tambourine/cowball/clapping sections. In GH:WT you have to yell unnaturally in different scales in those strange freefill sections instead, doesn't make fun/sense in my opinion (and you can cheat on that system by playing on a keyboard).

[Bananenbrot]

you can cheat on that system by playing on a keyboard as much as you can cheat by playing the whole vocals with it. i dont think it gives you much of an advantage as ive never used it and im still holding up well on the leaderboards though havent played for a long time.

[Bananenbrot]

you can cheat on that system by playing on a keyboard as much as you can cheat by playing the whole vocals with it. i dont think it gives you much of an advantage as ive never used it and im still holding up well on the leaderboards though havent played for a long time.

[toymachine]

I think GHWT/GHM vocalists are very underrated and I still can't believe my friend FCd Alabatross (on 360) ahahaha.

Also I think that the GH Vocals are so misunderstood. The instant people realized it wasn't like RB we go a while slew of:

"THESE VOCALS ARE BROKEN"
"THESE VOCALS SUCK"
"TOO HARD NEVERSOFT FAILS"

So now in GH5 it looks like it's RB vocals except the fact that to get an excellent the bar doesn't fill up all the way?

Guess we will have to wait and see.

Sorry but I don't have much to say besides what Hailz and BrianBAM already stated but I would like to point out- it would be nice if top vocalists shared their FF section techniques on certain songs (on video).
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[toymachine]

I think GHWT/GHM vocalists are very underrated and I still can't believe my friend FCd Alabatross (on 360) ahahaha.

Also I think that the GH Vocals are so misunderstood. The instant people realized it wasn't like RB we go a while slew of:

"THESE VOCALS ARE BROKEN"
"THESE VOCALS SUCK"
"TOO HARD NEVERSOFT FAILS"

So now in GH5 it looks like it's RB vocals except the fact that to get an excellent the bar doesn't fill up all the way?

Guess we will have to wait and see.

Sorry but I don't have much to say besides what Hailz and BrianBAM already stated but I would like to point out- it would be nice if top vocalists shared their FF section techniques on certain songs (on video).
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[dramacomic]

Well just to clarify...

[dramacomic]

Well just to clarify...

[Y2Grae]

@dramacomic - thank you for the apology. It wasnt so much the comment itself being major, more the straw that broke the camel's back.


As for sharing the "secrets". We already have, there are 2 pages full of notes to hit in freeforms covering both games expansively.

Hit as many of them and hold em til the multiplyer goes up.

Its what i've been doing since i discovered certain notes gained points in the freeforms.

I've also stated on previous thread here once that "come talk to me/us" yet not one person has pm'd or messaged anyother way. I'll willingly discuss, and maybe find a way to see what you are doing and where i can offer what i would deem help.


Am 2nd on world tour vocals(17mil), 2nd on world tour overall band (200million) and currently on gh:M i've broken 10million and am 89% through career with some sightreads and 22FCs to my name.

Sorry to sound out of order, but surely doing what i did and either asking people, reading and working out how to do it and testing your theories is going to be more condusive than just saying "they dont share"

i get xbox messages saying "wow" and "you're good" from random people who then never follow anything up.

[Y2Grae]

@dramacomic - thank you for the apology. It wasnt so much the comment itself being major, more the straw that broke the camel's back.


As for sharing the "secrets". We already have, there are 2 pages full of notes to hit in freeforms covering both games expansively.

Hit as many of them and hold em til the multiplyer goes up.

Its what i've been doing since i discovered certain notes gained points in the freeforms.

I've also stated on previous thread here once that "come talk to me/us" yet not one person has pm'd or messaged anyother way. I'll willingly discuss, and maybe find a way to see what you are doing and where i can offer what i would deem help.


Am 2nd on world tour vocals(17mil), 2nd on world tour overall band (200million) and currently on gh:M i've broken 10million and am 89% through career with some sightreads and 22FCs to my name.

Sorry to sound out of order, but surely doing what i did and either asking people, reading and working out how to do it and testing your theories is going to be more condusive than just saying "they dont share"

i get xbox messages saying "wow" and "you're good" from random people who then never follow anything up.

[toymachine]

ok I understand we have a bunch of vocal keys and scales listed but that doesn't really mean anything to me.

I want to see a VIDEO.

That's all I'm saying.
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[toymachine]

ok I understand we have a bunch of vocal keys and scales listed but that doesn't really mean anything to me.

I want to see a VIDEO.

That's all I'm saying.
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