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Mike65707
Joined: 04 Oct 2007 Posts: 1477 Location: Missouri
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:16 am Post subject: |
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Is the fact that it can be FC'd on lower speeds mean it's theoretically possible on Full Speed? I mean you can obviously strum more than enough on lower speeds to hit all the notes, but the timing between each note should be the same. And from what I can gather, the timing windows being so bunched up is what is making it so hard to hit.
Or am I just wrong all together? :P |
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f4phantom2500
Joined: 15 Mar 2007 Posts: 2885
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:18 am Post subject: |
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unless you're a broke ass mofo, just buy swapmagic and do it in pal. _________________
Here''''''''s a playlist of my FC videos of the 7 hardest songs to FC in GH1...also Cheat on the Church:
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=4A83D02058247AC5
***subscribe plz*** (hint: playing along to vids can help you in GH1 ;) PM me if you need song/section-specific advice).
47/ 64/ 29/ 68/ 41/ 85/ 48/ 47/ 85/ 46/ 87// 647 |
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MarkAllen1988
Joined: 24 Oct 2008 Posts: 815 Location: Lake Stevens, Washington
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:32 am Post subject: |
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f4phantom2500 wrote: | unless you're a broke ass mofo, just buy swapmagic and do it in pal. |
a PAL Trogdor FC is nothing compared to what a NTSC Trogdor FC would be. Notice Trogdor NTSC is at the top of every FC breakdown. And it is the only unFCd song in the series. You would be the first ever. Imagine how great that accomplishment would be. Even if one person can get it its not like there will be a huge burst of FCs like with Jordan and TTFAF. You'd probably be the only one for a long time if not ever. I honestly think FCing would be pure luck. There's no way someone could be consistent with using both hopos and utilizing the glitch at the same time. _________________
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Pas26
Joined: 04 Oct 2008 Posts: 3664 Location: Québec, Canada
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:37 am Post subject: |
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I THINK I found out what's going on.
The timing window is in ms, right?
The game will only let you act one frame at a time though, right?
Here's me theory:
AS SOON AS one single ms of the frame that you are currently playing has a ms that is out of the timing window, any strum in this frame is going to be a miss.
Now, on Full speed, you have maybe 8 frames to hit a note on this solo, not considering the strum limit. If my theory is right, this means that only 7 of them are useable.
On slowest, you have twice as much frames to hit a note, so 16. Again, one of them gets killed by my theory, bringing it to 15.
7 times two = 14.
14 vs 15... so on slowest it's a tad easier, PLUS the strumming is MUCH more steadier compared to the section, which makes it less likely to cross the strum limit.
If someone can reword it, or even see where I'm going and keep going in that direction, I'm tired as fuck. _________________
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eddaket
Joined: 19 Jul 2007 Posts: 2020
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:38 am Post subject: |
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Marbler wrote: | Also, from my experience, the strum limit is not 16.1 as previously indicated in strikebowler's example, but it's 16.5, which would make this a lot more possible. |
I slowed down a video of me FCing into the blues. The highest NPS I had where I didn't miss was 16.2 and the first note I missed I had strummed at 16.6, so it's somewhere in there...
MarkAllen1988 wrote: | I personally don't think its possible to do it consecutively, as in strum one time for two notes more than once in a row. |
My video in the OP looks like it did this...
(number means hit, 0 for miss, two numbers next to each other means same strum)
10223044 |
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LlamaYip
Joined: 23 Dec 2008 Posts: 3151 Location: Chicago, IL
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:54 am Post subject: |
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So this is a very rough image of a strategy I formulated very quickly.
The purple line shows about where you can start to the the first Y note, which I would suggest you strum there. The orange lines and normal strums, the blue lines are the 2/1 strums and the red lines are HOPOs.
Essentially, what occurs is that you strum the all normally, but when you get to the , in the end you only use 3 total strums, so that you can be set up for the , and use a couple 2/1 strums and strum it normally for the most part.
It's an awful drawing, I know..
Ill come up with more later.
Epic 2200th post. _________________
My Youtube | My Accomplishments | Total Hard FCs: 723/725 | My Stream | GenericName
Latest Hard FC: Through the Fire and Flames GH3 | GH1: 47/47 GH2: 62/64 GH80S: 30/30 GH3: 70/70 GHA: 41/41 GHWT: 86/86 GHM: 49/49 GHSH: 48/48 GH5: 85/85 GHVH: 47/47 BH: 65/65 GHWOR: 93/93
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thenewkidaw71
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 Posts: 809 Location: northeast ohio (we are all quitnessess)
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:41 am Post subject: |
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um marbler is getting several -3s and -4s on 360 NTSC on stream right now _________________
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MajorGeek42
Joined: 22 Mar 2007 Posts: 431 Location: Sacramento, CA
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:44 am Post subject: |
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Eep, I didn't think of the whole refresh rate thing. A single frame lasts for 16.666 etc. milliseconds. I'm getting a headache just thinking about the ramifications of this, assuming the game does process it as you mention (i seem to remember something about it doing that too). If the refresh rate affects the game's interpretation of the controller input, rather than just the displaying of the actions on-screen, then you have to have single-frame precise strumming to have the glitch work.
Well, hmm. I was about to point out that the glitch timeframe placement would be affected by the times you restart, but if it normalizes, limits everything per frame then it would always get to the strumming in the exact same way.
I'm REALLY hoping that it processes the input as normal and the refresh rate thing only affects the display, but PAL would seem to disagree with me in that regard (unless that's a separate factor). _________________
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MarkAllen1988
Joined: 24 Oct 2008 Posts: 815 Location: Lake Stevens, Washington
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:02 am Post subject: |
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eddaket wrote: |
MarkAllen1988 wrote: | I personally don't think its possible to do it consecutively, as in strum one time for two notes more than once in a row. |
My video in the OP looks like it did this...
(number means hit, 0 for miss, two numbers next to each other means same strum)
10223044 |
I meant I don't think it would be possible to strum exactly half the notes like
12233445
As was said in the other thread strumming exactly half the nps. Your example doesn't show any consecutive single strums that hit two notes. You hit one, missed one, hit two in one strum, missed one, hit two with one strum.
A possibility is that the two notes in one strum correlates with the note before it being dropped. This is all just speculation based off your interpretation of the notes you hit/missed. it could only happen when you miss.
Something else I was thinking is maybe it is somehow similar/related to the hopo glitch. That could explain why no one has confirmed this glitch on 360 because the hopo glitch is not present on 360. Pure speculation, but its something to think about. Is this glitch exclusive to NTSC PS2? _________________
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THABEAST721
Joined: 26 Dec 2007 Posts: 2000
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:06 am Post subject: |
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thenewkidaw71 wrote: | um marbler is getting several -3s and -4s on 360 NTSC on stream right now |
That's pretty normal to do. If he gets a -1, then that would be something to get excited about. I have gotten -1 on NTSC one time, but never an FC. Just honestly saying that -4 and -3 isn't incredibly hard to do, but it's still good.
I think the only way this would happen is to just spam strum slower than it actually is, accidentally use both hopos, and accidentally get one or two double notes in there. I don't think anyone could possibly be precise enough to hit this on NTSC by concentrating on either strumming exactly the speed you need to the entire time, or timing the hammerons perfectly as to give you more room in the timing window. If it happens, I think it will be by accident. It will take to a lot of luck along with a LOT of grinding. _________________
This does not leave my sig!!! |
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MajorGeek42
Joined: 22 Mar 2007 Posts: 431 Location: Sacramento, CA
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:40 am Post subject: |
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THABEAST721 wrote: | It will take to a lot of luck along with a LOT of grinding. |
QFT. Massive luck required here, perhaps along the lines of getting struck by lightning. _________________
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Marbler
Joined: 28 Feb 2009 Posts: 889
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:59 am Post subject: |
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I got a -2... I know it's not a -1, but the misses were 1 in the blues (which never happens) and 1 in the oranges (simply because I strummed too fast for that one split second). I don't care what any of you say, this FC will come to me. I will have this soon. _________________
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Tagrineth
Joined: 25 Oct 2007 Posts: 2199
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:38 am Post subject: |
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eddaket wrote: | Marbler wrote: | My question for you now is this: Did no one FC this because it was truly impossible? Or did no one FC this simply because everyone got discouraged from trying this because of strikebowler's bogus math when he was really tired? (It says so in the post that he was tired...) |
Once strike switched to PAL for the first time and FCed it, I don't think anyone legitimately tried to FC it on NTSC after that. Being deemed impossible didn't help the cause either. I honestly think that if it is possible, it's a lack of effort that is causing it. Strike found out the PAL thing almost two years ago. People have gotten a lot better since then.
On another note, I have a few videos (I won't post them, nothing exciting) that I'm gonna slow down to get my own number for the strum limit. I'll let you guys know what I find. |
I think when Strike switched to PAL and FCed the solo within 15 minutes, and FCed the song like 5 minutes after that, conclusively proving how much easier PAL made the solo... everyone just kinda stopped trying, because at the time Strike was well known as one of the best strummers in the community, and he clearly knew how to play the solo "correctly" based on how fast he got it on PAL... yet he still can't do it on NTSC, though I doubt he's tried in a while.
edit: There was that one guy who insisted he would be the first to do it on NTSC and he posted pretty much daily updates for a solid month or so on how many -N runs he'd got... I think at one point he did get a few -2s and maybe a -1 at one point, but he never got the solo. At some point I think he just gave up because he stopped posting about it entirely. _________________
My goals:
Put an X in this box: [why is this so hard]
stuff i''ve done, it''s been updated now which is weird |
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Strykerx
Joined: 02 Jul 2007 Posts: 3110 Location: Pants
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:03 am Post subject: |
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Just sayin, I've had -1 on Trogdor for about 2 years now. Done it a few times since. FC'd as far as the last 3 oranges once over that time. Literally zero progress in 2 years. Nothing is "close" to an FC, there's just the FC, and then way the fuck off. And I've tried over that time, believe me, you can ask lots of people around SH.
It's definitely not impossible, by the way. All I'm saying is that a -1 doesn't mean much when trying to FC. _________________
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eddaket
Joined: 19 Jul 2007 Posts: 2020
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:54 am Post subject: |
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MarkAllen1988 wrote: | eddaket wrote: |
MarkAllen1988 wrote: | I personally don't think its possible to do it consecutively, as in strum one time for two notes more than once in a row. |
My video in the OP looks like it did this...
(number means hit, 0 for miss, two numbers next to each other means same strum)
10223044 |
I meant I don't think it would be possible to strum exactly half the notes like
12233445
As was said in the other thread strumming exactly half the nps. Your example doesn't show any consecutive single strums that hit two notes. You hit one, missed one, hit two in one strum, missed one, hit two with one strum.
A possibility is that the two notes in one strum correlates with the note before it being dropped. This is all just speculation based off your interpretation of the notes you hit/missed. it could only happen when you miss.
Something else I was thinking is maybe it is somehow similar/related to the hopo glitch. That could explain why no one has confirmed this glitch on 360 because the hopo glitch is not present on 360. Pure speculation, but its something to think about. Is this glitch exclusive to NTSC PS2? |
I was semi agreeing with you in my post, I just never actually said it. It is also interesting to see that the pattern was
Downstrum, Miss, Double Upstrum, Downstrum, Miss, Doubly Upstrum.
99% sure that is insignificant, but it's kinda funny. |
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