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dr00bles  
 




Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 586
Location: New York

PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raikri999 wrote:
I held the exact same pitch, and I used the same exact SP path. If you really want, if Piano pitches work in this game, I haven't tested, I'll do a video with No SP and talkies, and I'm sure I'll get a different score each time on the same pitch.

Perhaps SP works differently in this game, so that every tick sung under SP is multiplied, rather than the whole phrase at the end of the phrase. This would be similar to the Rock Band system, and honestly, I think I'd like that more. Can anyone confirm if SP is applied at the end of the phrase (either the whole phrase or none of the phrase) or if you can get part of a phrase under SP?
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Icemage  
 




Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 3200

PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dr00bles wrote:
Raikri999 wrote:
I held the exact same pitch, and I used the same exact SP path. If you really want, if Piano pitches work in this game, I haven't tested, I'll do a video with No SP and talkies, and I'm sure I'll get a different score each time on the same pitch.

Perhaps SP works differently in this game, so that every tick sung under SP is multiplied, rather than the whole phrase at the end of the phrase. This would be similar to the Rock Band system, and honestly, I think I'd like that more. Can anyone confirm if SP is applied at the end of the phrase (either the whole phrase or none of the phrase) or if you can get part of a phrase under SP?

I asked Memesis (who should know since he works for Neversoft as a vox charter) about this yesterday and it's definitely applied at the end of a phrase to the entire phrase. If you run out of SP before the end of the phrase, you get no bonus at all.

Hence you only get points for SP if it's active at the end of a phrase, and you get credit for the entire phrase, even if you only activated right before the end.

This is easily tested, incidentally (though I haven't tested this on a talky song to be sure).
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yksi-kaksi-kolme  
 




Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 2761
Location: RPI

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ugh, the vocal system disgusts me. The display is awful. I thought this game was perfect but when I played vocals, it was just... ugh. There are so many things to rant about, but here are a few...

The microscopic windows. What the hell? It's so hard to see that little box compared to the old system. And what's worse is the colors. In the old game, you had a blue bar that turned yellow when you hit it. Great; I can tell when I hit it and when I didn't. In this game, you have a yellow box that fills in... with yellow. Yeah. It blends and it's insanely hard to tell whether or not you hit a short word. Oh, and the fireball blends in too much. I understand that it's supposed to be harder, and that's good, but not being able to see anything is NOT a good definition of "harder."

GH5 vocals make me very disappointedpanda. But you never know, perhaps I'm just overreacting to change. After all, I'll need to get more used to it before I can rant about it...
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tidus  
 




Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 4391
Location: Anywhere but U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, all of the improvements I've been told of have been done...but my experience with GH5 was nothing but the ultimate deception. Simply because the playability with the headset has worsened. A FUCKING LOT. The so-so-mentioned lag, which I was able to handle solidly on WT, M and SH, is extreme on GH5, where the moderatedly short hitboxes only have its final half filled when I match my timing with the song's (NOTE: I play on a 29'', non-HDTV).

I was wondering if the vocal engine of the previous GH's was forcing me to buy an USB mic (and trust me, its very hard to find one on the "little world" I live in). In the end, GH5 has finally managed to let me sure I was right since the very start.
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sentimentalgeek wrote:
But yeah, lol @ the fact that you can say "she" in this thread and not be sure which person is being talked about. Now we know whose milkshake brings all the girls to the yard.
<3 this.

| 57 RB1 on-disk FC's, plus 4 RB Vox FGFC's. No way I don't feel accomplished! =)
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GuitarHailz  
 




Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 4878
Location: Austin, Texas

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of the good points have been brought up here, and I agree with some of the bad. I feel like we took 2 steps forward and one step back, which still ultimately puts us ahead (imo).

I haven't touched practice mode, so I can't say much on that. If I could do one thing that would make my enjoyment of vocals increase twenty fold is to reduce the glowy-ness of the edges of the pitch tubes as well as make the fireball a tiny defined object, instead of the piece of fuzz it is now.

If both of these things happened I'd be able to see where I'm singing wrong and adjust. 99% of my problems with vocals, though, will be simply fixed by learning all of the songs. Just because you have a bad sightread doesn't make the game bad. I'm still doing exceptionally well on the songs I know, and that's the whole point. On the old games I would miss really stupid parts on the songs I DID know, which shouldn't happen.

I'll take a challenging game over RB2, where one could sightread FC a song they've never heard. It's still new, but after playing it for a while I'm hoping you guys will warm up to the newness of it.

In any case, you probably won't see my name on leaderboards anymore much. I love the game and I'm sure I'll be playing vocals eventually, but for now I have plenty of work to do with school. I hope you guys have fun. <3
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llamaman2  
 




Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 932

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This game is much harder than the others I've played. I can't even do well in songs I've FC'd previously. I can't tell at all when I'm off pitch either, the tubes are microscopic on my TV.

That said, I really like the new scoring system. It rewards those that sing well but you won't lose by 100,000 points because of a freeform.
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valioso  
 




Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 944

PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

while I enjoy the scoring system i think the SH recogniztion of vocals allowed for more natural singing.. but then again Im pretty bad at them
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TheBigBB  
 




Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 951
Location: Central NJ

PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love GH5 overall.

I HATE the vocals, though. Being able to sing a song at the right pitch 95% of the time still isn't good enough. Why is it still that the same songs I would consistently full combo on Rock Band are giving me awful scores and 4 stars on Guitar Hero? I understand it's a different game and shouldn't be compared in every way, but it's just absurd how strict the game is on expert. Heck, I even think it's too strict on easy.
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XFreeBird  
 




Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 903
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tidus wrote:
Well, all of the improvements I've been told of have been done...but my experience with GH5 was nothing but the ultimate deception. Simply because the playability with the headset has worsened. A FUCKING LOT. The so-so-mentioned lag, which I was able to handle solidly on WT, M and SH, is extreme on GH5, where the moderatedly short hitboxes only have its final half filled when I match my timing with the song's (NOTE: I play on a 29'', non-HDTV).

I was wondering if the vocal engine of the previous GH's was forcing me to buy an USB mic (and trust me, its very hard to find one on the "little world" I live in). In the end, GH5 has finally managed to let me sure I was right since the very start.


I live in the NORTHEASTERN part of the country YOU live in (You're Brazilian, am I right?) and I have a full band. I think it isn't hard, just EXPENSIVE. And if you're using your headset on a WIRED controller, it WILL have lag. On every game. However I never found a standalone GH/RB mic for sale.

@Topic: I agree with the points mentioned by the users in this topic. GH5's engine is strict. I fucked up BIG TIME in songs I never heard before (21st Century Schizoid Man, that live version of The Spirit Of Radio, All Along The Watchtower).
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Cam-H  
 




Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the plus side, I agree with most comments already - and there are some very good points. Personally I like the diverse set list, and I like that it's (seemingly at this stage) a bit more difficult than most past games. The graphics have improved, but frankly I think that there's still room for a lot more improvement: I don't seem to have the same trouble as other people in reading the lyrics but nonetheless the typeface isn't ideal.

yksi-kaksi-kolme wrote:
... And what's worse is the colors. In the old game, you had a blue bar that turned yellow when you hit it. Great; I can tell when I hit it and when I didn't. In this game, you have a yellow box that fills in... with yellow. Yeah. It blends and it's insanely hard to tell whether or not you hit a short word ...


Yes! Absolutely! I am astonished that this clearly unhelpful colour selection issue was not weeded out long ago. The only time you get a really good look is when doing star power phrases where the yellow comet trail drags over the blue phrase.

A couple of other grizzles - some of which have probably been discussed and debated many times before;

Very low notes, I find, are still not being recognised ... for instance towards the end of Fame where the notes step lower I hit this issue. The only Rockband game I've played has been The Beatles, and I haven't had this difficulty with that game.

As earlier noted in this thread, I also think that something should be done about humming your way through a song. With voice recognition software being where it is these days, I would have thought that the game should at least be able to discern hard and soft syllables and credit players for singing lyrics rather than making noises.

Talkies have already been mentioned. They are hard to differentiate from normal lyrics on the screen, and it's generally easier to retain a constant noise than actually attempt to talk/rap through talkie phrases. Personally I think 'all talkie' songs should not be scored for vocals unless a new mechanic can be introduced into the game that recognises and rewards rapping.

Although there's already lots of post-song feedback available, I actually wouldn't mind a further option that would provide feedback on why I'm not getting 'Excellent' on some phrases. Occasionally I'll get a 'Solid' on a phrase that I think that I'm singing well and/or not differently to other times. I wouldn't suggest this becomes an 'in your face' feature, but if you wanted to perfect a song it would be handy to have access to more information on a phrase-by-phrase basis to explain what went wrong.

Overall, despite the complaining, I am enjoying the game.
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DeusExProcella  
 




Joined: 04 Jun 2007
Posts: 708
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheBigBB wrote:
I love GH5 overall.

I HATE the vocals, though. Being able to sing a song at the right pitch 95% of the time still isn't good enough. Why is it still that the same songs I would consistently full combo on Rock Band are giving me awful scores and 4 stars on Guitar Hero? I understand it's a different game and shouldn't be compared in every way, but it's just absurd how strict the game is on expert. Heck, I even think it's too strict on easy.


Rock Band 2 (assuming that's which one you mean) has a very, very loose window for vocals. 1.4 semitones of forgiveness.

GH5 has only 1 semitone of forgiveness. No, singing the right pitch 95% of the time isn't good enough.

It's perfectly fine that the game is hard on vocals. It actually gives SOME credit to being a vocalist by trade other than squeezing capability. The game is still acceptable in my opinion on difficulty. I've got a -4 on Under Pressure, I sightread FC'd Hungry like the Wolf, and I barely passed Fame...it's just you have to actually sing the right pitches more than Rock Band would require you too.
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MajorGeek42  
 




Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 431
Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm curious, since there has been repeated mention of the measure of leniency for vocals on expert for RB2 and GH5 - what about the ranges for each difficulty? I could swear RB2 Expert is equivalent to GH5 Hard, and it would be nice to have those values for the record anyway.
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tidus  
 




Joined: 04 May 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry again for the big necro (although this is still on the 1st page). Just thought I'd share my true opinions about GH5 Vocals, now that I have a mic.

Despite being apparently the most lenient GH engine, I can't see if I'm too flat/sharp, and holding the pitch indicator to antecipate the 1st note became almost useless. HOWEVER...there is one reason, and only one alone why I prefer GH5 over the others: the fucking black highway. The transparent highway from GHSH/M/WT robbed me from many of the potential FC's when I'm under SP, and this became graduatively frustrating. I even had to use silly tactics such as messing up SP to use it on easier places.

But well, I believe I got stuck enough to this game, and I'm liking the vocals so far. It's just a matter of getting used to it.
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sentimentalgeek wrote:
But yeah, lol @ the fact that you can say "she" in this thread and not be sure which person is being talked about. Now we know whose milkshake brings all the girls to the yard.
<3 this.

| 57 RB1 on-disk FC's, plus 4 RB Vox FGFC's. No way I don't feel accomplished! =)
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icanFCyamum  
 




Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just be chill, and you win. CHILL!
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yksi-kaksi-kolme  
 




Joined: 22 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoa whoa whoa I found a way to beat the green line eating the comet so you can't see it.

Play as player 2. The comet is orange for player 2, which is a really contrasting color from green. If that doesn't work for you, try P3 and P4 and compare the results.

This has given me surprisingly helpful results
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