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newuser1234
Joined: 31 Dec 2007 Posts: 1273
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:18 am Post subject: |
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wow your thread is much better lol...i didn't know about it otherwise we could have collaborated _________________
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dave0113
Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Posts: 1426 Location: LaGrange, New York
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:24 am Post subject: |
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If possible, could someone who knows how to make customs for GH3 PC make a chart that has 5 holds at a very low BPM (around 25 would be perfect), with the first hold being exactly 1 tick, the second hold being exactly 2 ticks, the third hold being exactly 3 ticks, the fourth hold being exactly 4 ticks, and the last hold being exactly 1 beat? Also please put a full beat in between each hold.
The reason I'm asking is to test my theory that you can get ticks to accumulate with the proper timing starting at exactly 1 tick past the center of the note.
Edit: newuser1234, I actually like this thread better, because this thread only discusses optimal star power paths with extra squeezes accommodated for, whereas conlan's thread did not discuss extra squeezes. Also I think it is a good idea to have both, but have conlan's thread just focus on techniques for hitting the notes, while your thread focuses on star power paths. When you much them all together the OP gets rather large and it becomes slightly more difficult to find the information that you are looking for.
Also, read my last couple of posts on the first page, I edited them with some new information. _________________
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conlan22
Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 1542
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:30 am Post subject: |
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newuser1234 wrote: |
wow your thread is much better lol...i didn't know about it otherwise we could have collaborated |
we'll my last post in it was like two years ago so even I forgot about it. Maybe someday I'll finish it off but who knows |
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LlamaYip
Joined: 23 Dec 2008 Posts: 3151 Location: Chicago, IL
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:34 am Post subject: |
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dave0113 wrote: | If possible, could someone who knows how to make customs for GH3 PC make a chart that has 5 holds at a very low BPM (around 25 would be perfect), with the first hold being exactly 1 tick, the second hold being exactly 2 ticks, the third hold being exactly 3 ticks, the fourth hold being exactly 4 ticks, and the last hold being exactly 1 beat? Also please put a full beat in between each hold.
The reason I'm asking is to test my theory that you can get ticks to accumulate with the proper timing starting at exactly 1 tick past the center of the note.
Edit: newuser1234, I actually like this thread better, because this thread only discusses optimal star power paths with extra squeezes accommodated for, whereas conlan's thread did not discuss extra squeezes. Also I think it is a good idea to have both, but have conlan's thread just focus on techniques for hitting the notes, while your thread focuses on star power paths. When you much them all together the OP gets rather large and it becomes slightly more difficult to find the information that you are looking for.
Also, read my last couple of posts on the first page, I edited them with some new information. | The only problem with this one is that the GH3PC whammy suffers some kind of glitch and doesn't actually completely register so you can never get full Star Power on GH3PC customs.
I guess we could try PS2 customs, although it's been awhile since I've seen any of those. _________________
My Youtube | My Accomplishments | Total Hard FCs: 723/725 | My Stream | GenericName
Latest Hard FC: Through the Fire and Flames GH3 | GH1: 47/47 GH2: 62/64 GH80S: 30/30 GH3: 70/70 GHA: 41/41 GHWT: 86/86 GHM: 49/49 GHSH: 48/48 GH5: 85/85 GHVH: 47/47 BH: 65/65 GHWOR: 93/93
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dave0113
Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Posts: 1426 Location: LaGrange, New York
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:38 am Post subject: |
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Star power isn't needed at all for this test. The tick burst happens whether or not you are under star power. The goal is to let go of the note exactly 1 tick after the note starts (which will be easy at 25 BPM) and evaluate the score. _________________
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ThunderShade
Joined: 12 Jun 2008 Posts: 350 Location: Scotland
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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dave0113 wrote: | If possible, could someone who knows how to make customs for GH3 PC make a chart that has 5 holds at a very low BPM (around 25 would be perfect), with the first hold being exactly 1 tick, the second hold being exactly 2 ticks, the third hold being exactly 3 ticks, the fourth hold being exactly 4 ticks, and the last hold being exactly 1 beat? Also please put a full beat in between each hold.
The reason I'm asking is to test my theory that you can get ticks to accumulate with the proper timing starting at exactly 1 tick past the center of the note.
Edit: newuser1234, I actually like this thread better, because this thread only discusses optimal star power paths with extra squeezes accommodated for, whereas conlan's thread did not discuss extra squeezes. Also I think it is a good idea to have both, but have conlan's thread just focus on techniques for hitting the notes, while your thread focuses on star power paths. When you much them all together the OP gets rather large and it becomes slightly more difficult to find the information that you are looking for.
Also, read my last couple of posts on the first page, I edited them with some new information. |
Gave this a go. I don't know how long a tick is (I'll try slower bpm with drum beat to tell me when later) but two things I noted :
1. Yes, ticks do go up in twos. Just confirming what you said.
2. The first four sustains became just ordinary notes. I held the green button down for the entire song and those four notes only ever gave me 50. I'm guessing GH3 only makes a note a sustain if the sustain part is more than a quarter of a beat long. I could verify this with testing, but I don't see why it would help anyone knowing that. _________________
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dave0113
Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Posts: 1426 Location: LaGrange, New York
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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That's an interesting comment. I forgot about the fact that you can't have a sustain shorter than a quarter of a beat. That means we actually do need star power to test this theory. The easiest way that I can see to test whether or not you can get tick accumulation on the first tick after the hold is as follows:
- Make the first two notes of the song star power (separate star power phrases though so that you get half a bar of star power).
- Place the second star power note/phrase exactly one tick past the beat line, so you can just pre-tilt the guitar and hitting it will auto-activate.
- Place a note with a 1 beat hold length exactly 4 measures after the beat line of the second star power phrase. This will make the star power run out exactly 1 tick after the center of that hold (also note these should be the only 3 notes in the song).
- Increase the BPM of the measure immediately preceding the hold, so that you can abuse the timing window to hit the note either 1 or 2 ticks early (any more and it would make the test difficult, 56 BPM is ideal).
- Make sure the BPM of the measure with the hold is low again.
That is how we make the chart, to test it this is how we would play it:
- Hit the first note getting a quarter bar of star power.
- Pre-tilt your guitar, and then hit the second note at the center of the timing window.
- Hit the hold at the end of the activation either at the center of the timing window or just slightly after.
- Record your score. Theoretically your score should be 225 if my theory is correct.
- Repeat the test, except this time hit the hold exactly 1 tick early.
- Record your score again, this time it should be 227 if my theory is correct.
- Repeat the test one more time, this time hitting the hold exactly 2 ticks early. Record your score one final time, and if my theory is correct than your score should go back down to 225.
Report the results in this thread and that will give us enough information to figure out how the first tick is accumulated. _________________
Last edited by dave0113 on Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ThunderShade
Joined: 12 Jun 2008 Posts: 350 Location: Scotland
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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dave0113 wrote: | That's an interesting comment. I forgot about the fact that you can't have a sustain shorter than a quarter of a beat. That means we actually do need star power to test this theory. The easiest way that I can see to test whether or not you can get tick accumulation on the first tick after the hold is as follows:
- Make the first two notes of the song star power (separate star power phrases though so that you get half a bar of star power).
- Place the second star power note/phrase exactly one tick past the beat line, so you can just pre-tilt the guitar and hitting it will auto-activate.
- Place a note with a 1 beat hold length exactly 4 measures after the beat line of the second star power phrase. This will make the star power run out exactly 1 tick after the center of that hold (also note these should be the only 3 notes in the song).
- Increase the BPM of the measure immediately preceding the hold, so that you can abuse the timing window to hit the note either 1 or 2 ticks early (any more and it would make the test difficult, 56 BPM is ideal).
- Make sure the BPM of the measure with the hold is low again.
That is how we make the chart, to test it this is how we would play it:
- Hit the first note getting a quarter bar of star power.
- Pre-tilt your guitar, and then hit the second note at the center of the timing window.
- Hit the hold at the end of the activation either at the center of the timing window or just slightly after.
- Record your score. Theoretically your score should be 175 if my theory is correct.
- Repeat the test, except this time hit the hold exactly 1 tick early.
- Record your score again, this time it should be 177 if my theory is correct.
- Repeat the test one more time, this time hitting the hold exactly 2 ticks early. Record your score one final time, and if my theory is correct than your score should go back down to 175.
Report the results in this thread and that will give us enough information to figure out how the first tick is accumulated. |
56 BPM? Can I ask what is special about 56? Also, I am hitting the first two notes without SP (100) and one under it (100) plus ticks (25 or 27). Shouldn't that make it 225 and 227? _________________
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dave0113
Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Posts: 1426 Location: LaGrange, New York
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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lol, you're right, I forgot to add the 50 points from getting the note itself under star power, I'll edit that in my previous post. The reason I say 56 BPM is because it is the highest BPM you can have with out being able to hit the hold 3 ticks early. This means you will have the largest room for error possible on hitting the note 2 ticks early. Theoretically 57 BPM will also only allow you to hit the note 2 ticks early, but I don't want there to be any doubt. 25 Is ideal for the lower number because although you can hit the note 1 tick late, it will take an absolutely massive squeeze to do so, and it is a nice round number. If you want to eliminate this possibility altogether than decrease that number to 23 BPM. _________________
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dave0113
Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Posts: 1426 Location: LaGrange, New York
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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I just realized again that we still don't need star power, lol. Here is how we can test the theory with just one note:
- Construct a chart that is at 56 BPM for the first measure.
- Decrease the BPM of the song to 23 BPM at the start of the second measure.
- Place a hold at the start of the second measure that lasts for 1 beat.
- Play the song, hitting the note exactly 1 tick early, and let go of the hold anywhere between 1 and 2 ticks into the hold (must be after 1 tick, but before 2 ticks).
- Record your score. It should be 52.
- Play the song again, hitting the note exactly 2 ticks early, and let go of the hold anywhere between 1 and 2 ticks into the hold (must be after 1 tick, but before 2 ticks).
- Record your score. It should be 50.
- Play the song one last time, and this time hit the hold at the center of the timing window, and let go of the hold anywhere between 1 and 2 ticks into the hold (must be after 1 tick, but before 2 ticks).
- Record your score. It should be 50.
Try and perform those three tests multiple times to insure that you get the same results every time. If you are not getting the same results, than you are not executing the timing properly for letting go of the hold.
Having said all of this, I think the option that uses star power is better, because it does not require us to time letting go of the hold, which can be difficult to figure out how long "1 tick" is. So I would use the test I describe above as the preferred test. _________________
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ThunderShade
Joined: 12 Jun 2008 Posts: 350 Location: Scotland
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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Used your SP test since it was easier to set up. Moved both the second and third note forward by one and then two ticks (actually a bit more each time to give more accuracy) from your original positions and delayed the BPM change until the new position of the hold so I could squeeze precisely by hitting the measure line dead on (Never again will I get a 95ms squeeze so consistently lol). Did quite a few tests on both charts. I always got exactly as your theory predicts. _________________
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dave0113
Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Posts: 1426 Location: LaGrange, New York
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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ThunderShade wrote: | Used your SP test since it was easier to set up. Moved both the second and third note forward by one and then two ticks (actually a bit more each time to give more accuracy) from your original positions and delayed the BPM change until the new position of the hold so I could squeeze precisely by hitting the measure line dead on (Never again will I get a 95ms squeeze so consistently lol). Did quite a few tests on both charts. I always got exactly as your theory predicts. |
Just to be absolutely certain, you mean:
- Hitting the hold on time yielded 225 points?
- Hitting the hold 1 tick early yielded 227 points?
- Hitting the hold 2 ticks early yielded 225 points? _________________
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ThunderShade
Joined: 12 Jun 2008 Posts: 350 Location: Scotland
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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dave0113 wrote: | Just to be absolutely certain, you mean:
- Hitting the hold on time yielded 225 points?
- Hitting the hold 1 tick early yielded 227 points?
- Hitting the hold 2 ticks early yielded 225 points? |
Yep. Every single time. _________________
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dave0113
Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Posts: 1426 Location: LaGrange, New York
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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Excellent, this means we have confirmed the possibility of accumulating points only 1 tick past the center of the note. We also confirmed that in order to do so, you have to hit the note an odd number of ticks early.
Ultimately, this concludes that is indeed mathematically possible to get ticks on the last activation of Same Old Song and dance by moving the activation back one note. Having said that, those ticks will require a 100% squeeze for the front end, and a 77%-91% back end squeeze to get all of the ticks (any higher would result in hitting the red hold 6 ticks early, so tick accumulation wouldn't start until 2 ticks after the center of the hold). _________________
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ThunderShade
Joined: 12 Jun 2008 Posts: 350 Location: Scotland
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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Absolutely nuts squeezes, but on the 3rd act of TTFAF you can squeeze one more note in. The squeeze is about 105/106 ms (if you get an extra note at the beginning or end respectively). Also in the 7th act you can get another note in at the end. It's a 100ms squeeze, so again nearly impossible. Both are very hard double squeezes and most likely will never happen with an FC, but they aren't on the upper bound path. _________________
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